RPTS STRICKLAND
DCMN MAGMER
EXECUTIVE SESSION
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
WASHINGTON, D.C.
DEPOSITION OF: DAVID MERCER VOLUME II
Tuesday, August 26, 1997
Washington, D.C.
The deposition in the above matter was held in Room 2203, Rayburn House Office Building, commencing at 10:18 a.m.
Appearances:
Staff Present for the Government Reform and Oversight Committee: James C. Wilson, Senior Investigative Counsel; David A. Kass, Investigative Counsel; and Michael J. Yeager, Minority Counsel.
For MR. MERCER:
STANLEY REED, ESQ.
LAURI E. CLEARY, ESQ.
MELANIE KELLER, ESQ.
Law Offices of Lerch Early & Brewer Chartered
Suite 380, 3 Bethesda Metro Center,
Bethesda, Maryland 208145367
Mr. Wilson. This is a continuation of last Thursday's deposition.
Mr. Mercer, you are still under oath. Do you understand that?
The Witness. I do.
Mr. Wilson. When last we were together, we were discussing a document, which was marked Exhibit DM8, and I submit that for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM8
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. We were discussing Mr. Charlie Trie, and I'll continue on with some questions about Charlie Trie.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Mr. Mercer, do you know whether Mr. Trie was invited onto the finance board of directors at the DNC?
A I believe a letter went out to that effect.
Q Do you know when he became part of the board of directors?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Do you remember the year?
A No, I don't.
Q Approximately how many members did the finance board of directors have?
A In the range of 100 or more.
Q And what were the requirements to be considered part of the finance board of directors?
A As I stated earlier on the record several times, it was raising $250,000 or giving and raising or a combination of.
Q Do you recall what events you invited Mr. Trie to in 1994?
A Not specifically, no.
Q Do you have a general recollection of any fundraisers you invited him to attend?
A Well, I don't it is presuming that I invited him. We sent out invitations to our people. I believe he participated in the 1994 birthday party in August and the galas that we've discussed earlier.
Q Were videos made of the annual DNC galas?
A I believe that question has been asked also on the record, and I don't know if it was a policy. I believe a video or two have been made of galas, but I don't know it as a policy that that videos were made of events or galas.
Q Did you ever receive requests for copies of videotapes that might have been made at the galas?
A I did receive one of Charlie Trie which we discussed last week.
Q And did you obtain a video for him?
A I don't believe we did, no.
Q Do you know whether you requested a video for him?
A I may have requested from the video the guy that maintains our videos, but I don't think that they had a copy of it.
Q Who was the person that maintained videos at DNC?
A I'm not sure. I can get that name for you or you can ask anybody at the DNC who maintains our videos.
Q Was there an office that maintained records at the DNC records such as videos or invitations past invitations?
A There wasn't an office that maintained invitations. There was an office of somebody who maintained videotapes.
Q What office was that?
A A media office. I'm not sure exactly what the name of the office is.
Q Apart from the video of the 1994 gala that we were just discussing, do you recall obtaining video tapes for anybody other than Mr. Trie at any time during your time at the DNC?
A Not that I recall.
Q Do you recall whether a professional photographer was hired to take the videotapes?
A We had a photographer taking pictures. I don't know if we had a photographer doing the videotape.
Q Did you work on the 1994 presidential birthday fundraiser?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you solicit a contribution from Mr. Trie in conjunction with the 1994 presidential birthday fundraiser?
A To the best of my recollection, I probably did; but I'm not altogether sure.
Q I've provided the witness with a document which is Bates marked DNC 3078821. It's dated 12/3/96 in the top lefthand corner; and it's titled DNC Finance Executive Summary; and it lists, among other things, a possible contribution from August 9, 1994, for something that is titled BC Voter Outreach Dinner; and the fundraiser is listed as Mr. Mercer.
Do you recall asking Mr. Trie for a $20,000 contribution?
A I don't specifically recall asking him for the contribution, no.
Q Considering the 1994 presidential birthday fundraiser, do you recall if Mr. Trie asked for any special treatment or seating at that event?
A I don't recall him asking for specific arrangements; but I would assume that, based on the level of giving or what one's supporting status was, that arrangements would accrue to the person to their giving level.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie brought any guests to this first of all, do you know whether Mr. Trie attended this event?
A I believe he did attend the event.
Q Do you know if he brought any guests to this event?
A I don't have specific recollection of whether or not he did. I would assume he did, but I don't know for a fact that he did.
Q Do you recall whether he brought an individual named Ng Lap Seng, also known as Mr. Wu, to the 1994 presidential birthday fundraiser?
A It's possible, but I don't recall Mr. Wu being there.
Mr. Wilson. This exhibit is marked DM9 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM9
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document a number of pages long. The first page of this document is marked DNC 1592550, and it's titled: DNC Presidential Birthday Celebration, Sumner Wells Estate, Fort Washington, Maryland, August 2nd 1994.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you prepare this list of attendees?
A It looks like something I would have prepared. I'm not sure if it came from my documents or not.
Q Page 2 of this document indicates that or at least it states next to Mr. Trie's name, FOB/Managing Trustee. What does FOB mean?
A FOB is a term that, broken out, means Friend of Bill.
Q Was there a list of individuals who were categorized by the DNC as FOB?
A Not that I am aware of. A physical list that listed all FOBs? No.
Q What does this what does this term mean, aside from the literal designation, Friend of Bill? Does it have a particular significance in the DNC?
A Not that I'm aware of, except for the association and leads to Arkansas and the Clintons.
Q How were you aware backing up. Were you aware at the time of this the preparation of this memorandum in August of 1994 that Mr. Trie was a Friend of Bill?
A I presume I was, especially if I prepared the document and listed him as an FOB.
Q And how did you how did you know that?
A I don't recall. I believe it was general knowledge, and I don't have any specific recollection of somebody telling me or how I picked it up, whether from him or others or
Q Prior to the preparation of this document or at least prior to this date, August 2nd, 1994 had you ever seen Mr. Trie conversing with President Clinton?
A No, I had not.
Q Had you ever seen Mr. Trie in the company of President Clinton?
A No. I don't recall even during the '94 gala whether I even saw Mr. Trie sitting with President Clinton. I can't say that I did.
Mr. Wilson. This document's been marked exhibit DM10 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM10
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. I've provided the witness a document which is numbered DNC 0896231, and it is appears to be a list. It's titled: Presidential Birthday Celebration, August 2nd, 1994; and it states at the top, this is Chairman David Wilhelm's table.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie sat at Chairman Wilhelm's table at this fundraiser?
A No, I do not.
Q Underneath Mr. Trie's name in brackets is the name Charlie Chang. Do you know an individual named Charlie Chang?
A I believe I met Charlie Chang once, and if my memory serves me he is an owner of a restaurant or restaurants in the triState area.
Q When did you meet Mr. Chang?
A It could have been at this event. It could have I'm not sure when I met him.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Chang attended other DNC events with Mr. Trie?
A To the best of my recollection, I don't recall him being in other events, but I can't be sure of that.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked exhibit DM11 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM11
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know a Mr. Ernest Green?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Green?
A Probably in 1993 or it could have been in the '92 election, but I'm not sure.
Q Do you have a recollection as to where you first met Mr. Green?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you know an individual named Jude Kearney?
A I believe that last week I stated that I did know Mr. Kearney.
Q Do you recall when you first met Mr. Kearney?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you know whether you have ever attended any DNC events with Mr. Kearney?
Mr. Reed. Pardon me. Was he present at any DNC events with Mr. Kearney or did he go with Mr. Kearney?
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Whether you were present with Mr. Kearney at any DNC events?
A It's possible, but I don't recall any specific occasion when we were at DNC events together.
Q Do you recall whether you attended a breakfast with Mr. Green, Mr. Kearney, Charlie Trie and Ng Lap Seng at the HayAdams Hotel in October of 1994?
Mr. Reed. Is that Kearney, Green, Mr. Wu?
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Charlie Trie and Mr. Wu at the HayAdams in October of 1994?
A I don't believe I did, but it is quite possible, and it's the first I'm hearing of it.
Q Do you have any recollection of attending any nonDNC events with Mr. Green, Mr. Carney and Mr. Trie in attendance at the same time?
Mr. Reed. Just for clarification, what do you mean by "nonDNC events"?
Mr. Wilson. Any event that did not have a DNC sponsorship, a nonfundraiser event.
The Witness. Not that I can recall out of the blue, no.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether you organized a breakfast or any event for just Mr. Kearney Mr. Trie and Mr. Wu?
A No, I don't.
Q Do you know Allen Weinstein?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who is Mr. Weinstein?
A I believe he's the chair or director of the Center for Democracy that deals with Russia, China, on economic development issues and other things, that has on its board everybody from Newt Gingrich to senators and whomever else.
Q Do you know an individual named Nancy Jacobson?
A Yes, I do.
Q And who is Nancy Jacobson?
A She is a former DNC employee.
Q Do you know what her current occupation is?
A I believe she's a consultant.
Q Is Ms. Jacobson associated with the Center for Democracy?
A I believe I don't know what that association is. I know she knows Allen, but I don't know what her association is.
Q Do you know the tax status of the Center for Democracy?
A No, I do not.
Mr. Wilson. I've provided the witness a document which is marked DNC 1588002. It is a memorandum to Allen Weinstein and Nancy Jacobson from David Mercer dated March 20, 1995.
If you could take a moment just to review this.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q This document states that attached is a check for $10,000 from Charlie Trie to the Center for Democracy. Did you request Mr. Trie to make this contribution?
A I believe I set up a meeting with him and Allen Weinstein to talk about the activities and the goals of the Center for Democracy; and, subsequently, Charlie made a contribution of $10,000 to the organization.
Q Why did you set up this meeting?
A Because I thought one, Nancy Jacobson had brought it to my attention; and, secondly, I thought that Charlie and Mr. Weinstein would have mutual interests for them to discuss and for them to take it from there.
Q Had Mr. Weinstein ever mentioned the Center for Democracy to you prior to your setting up this meeting?
A We may have had a discussion subsequent to my discussion with Nancy Jacobson, but and preceding the meeting.
Q Do you recall whether in conversations prior to the meeting you have described whether you discussed the activities of the Center for Democracy with Mr. Trie?
A I believe I probably did discuss the activities with Mr. Trie in a summary fashion to brief him on the nature of the meeting, but I don't recall the specifics of the discussion.
Q Do you recall whether you solicited any other contributions for the Center for Democracy?
A I don't believe I may have, but I don't know I don't believe anybody else had actually made a contribution to the Center.
Q In the memorandum we are examining now it states, I trust you will keep Charlie abreast of the Center's events and functions.
Do you know whether the Center did continue to keep Mr. Trie informed of the Center's events and functions?
A I am not aware of whether they did or not.
Q Did you ever attend any Center for Democracy events?
A I don't believe I have, no.
Q Do you recall when the meeting between Mr. Trie and Mr. Weinstein took place?
A Do I remember when?
Q Correct.
A I would assume it's in the time span of around March 20th, 1995, but I'm not altogether sure.
Q Do you know if Mr. Trie attended any events that were organized or sponsored by the Center for Democracy?
A I don't know that.
Mr. Wilson. I'll mark this document exhibit DM12 for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM12
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you set up a meeting between Charlie Trie, Winston Wang and Chairman Fowler in June of 1995?
A I probably could have or did, but I don't have a specific recollection of it.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which has been marked F 0017611, titled: Meeting with Charlie Trie, President of Daihatsun International Trading, and Winston Wang, President of Formosa Plastics Corporation.
This document has three pages as submitted or appears that page 1 and 2 are copies of each other, although they are Bates marked differently, and the third page is a briefing memorandum for Chairman Fowler.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether you prepared this document?
A I did not prepare the first two pages. I could have prepared, but I'm not altogether sure, the third page. But I don't actually, I don't I may have on the third page. I'm not sure, though.
Q Have you ever met Mr. Winston Wang?
A Yes, I have.
Q And where did you first meet Mr. Wang?
A I believe it was at the DNC, outside the DNC, you know, outside the building, before he came in is when I believe I met him.
Q Was this at roughly the same time as the meeting described between Mr. Trie and Mr. Wang and Chairman Fowler?
A I would assume it was, but I don't have, you know, the sequence of events in my mind.
Q Had you met Mr. Wang at any time before this meeting between Charlie Trie, Mr. Wang and Chairman Fowler was suggested or envisioned?
A I may have seen him prior to. I have a vague recollection of seeing him before he went to a White House coffee.
Q The third page of the memorandum that we are reviewing contains some background information and a onesentence purpose section. Is this information that you recall knowing in advance of the meeting between Chairman Fowler, Charlie Trie and Winston Wang?
A It seems accurate information from what I understood Winston Wang's summary background to be.
Q Do you know where this information was obtained?
A I don't know if it was obtained through Charlie or over the phone. I'm not sure.
Q Do you recall having had any telephone conversations with Mr. Wang prior to the meeting discussed in this memorandum?
A I don't believe I did.
Q Do you recall having telephone conversations with Mr. Trie about Mr. Wang prior to the meeting envisioned in this memorandum?
A I don't recall specifically having conversations, but I'm sure we did as we were introduced to Mr. Wang through Charlie Trie.
Q Did you request Mr. Wang make a contribution to the DNC?
A I don't think that I communicated with Mr. Wang regarding contributions.
Q Do you know who invited Mr. Wang to the presidential coffee that is referred to on the first page of the three pages I've given you?
A I believe Charlie had made arrangements for that to happen. Whether it was me including him on a list of suggested people to participate and that list being the list that was eventually approved for the attendees to attend the coffee
Q Did Mr. Trie first make this request to you?
A I don't know what the sequence of that was, whether he spoke to anybody before me or after me. But I'm sure that he communicated to me and I communicated to Richard Sullivan or I guess, if this is '95, it would be to Richard Sullivan, I presume, yeah.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Wang made any contributions in connection with the presidential coffee that he attended?
A I don't believe he did, but I don't know that for a fact.
Q Did you attend the meeting that's described in the memorandum I've given you, the meeting between Mr. Trie, Mr. Wang and Mr. Fowler?
A I believe I did, yes; but I am not altogether sure.
Q Do you recall any discussions at meetings between Mr. Trie, Mr. Wang, Mr. Fowler and yourself?
A I believe to the best of my recollection is that the meeting was maybe 5minutes long as Mr. Fowler was rushed to go to a luncheon or another appointment and that it was a very brief exchange of pleasantries, and I'm not even sure there was an actual sitdown at the table.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie or Mr. Wang made any requests for assistance in meeting government employees?
A I do not recall that ever being mentioned.
Q Did you have any contact with Mr. Wang after this meeting?
A I believe walking him out walking him out with Mr. Trie, escorting him to the elevator.
Q Did you have any subsequent telephone conversations with Mr. Wang?
A I don't believe I did, no.
Q Do you recall whether you met him any time after this meeting described in the document we've been reviewing?
A Well, I know that I met him the morning of the coffee, but I don't recall meeting him and then maybe they came by the DNC. I have a brief recollection of them coming by the DNC and seeing them outside the building, asking them how it went and then them getting in a cab and going off from the DNC.
Q And when you say "them," to whom are you referring?
A Charlie and Winston Wang.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM13.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM13
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document that's been marked DNC 1587663. It is a memorandum to Ari Swiller from Mr. Mercer dated June 19, 1995.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q This memorandum contains personal information for four individuals. Do you recall preparing this memorandum?
A I don't recall preparing it, but I know the names on the on the memorandum listed.
Q Do you recall why you prepared this memorandum?
Mr. Reed. I think the testimony was that he didn't recall that he had prepared the memorandum.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q I apologize. Do you have any knowledge of why the four individuals are grouped together in this memorandum?
A Being that they are probably trustees, Ari Swiller being the trustee director, and informing him of, you know, the fact that these trustees may be participating in the event; and it could have been the coffee of 6/21, but I'm not sure.
Q Do you know who Mr. George Marcus is?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who is Mr. Marcus?
A Mr. Marcus is the partner founding partner of Marcus & Milichap, which is a real estate company in Sacramento or San Francisco, California, or in that area.
Q And do you know Mr. Mark Dayton?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who is Mr. Dayton?
A Mr. Dayton is an investment banker I believe Vermillion Investments from Minneapolis, Minnesota.
Mr. Wilson. This memorandum is marked exhibit DM14.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM14
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether you solicited contributions from Mr. Marcus?
A I believe, yes, I have.
Q Do you recall whether you solicited contributions from Mr. Dayton?
A Yes, I have.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which has been marked DNC 1612853. It has a title: Memorandum for Charlie Trie. It's from Mr. Mercer, dated October 16, 1995.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever discuss with Mr. Trie setting up an organization called Democrats Abroad in Taiwan?
A I discussed with Mr. Trie in response to his inquiry as to whether a chapter or operation of Democrats Abroad existed in Taiwan.
Q Did Mr. Trie first mention to you the existence of Democrats Abroad in Taiwan?
A I believe, as based on this memo, that I'm informing Mr. Trie, based on my inquiries, that there currently already existed a chapter in Taiwan of Democrats Abroad.
Q And do you recall why you provided this information to Mr. Trie?
A It was standard request. I would get requests like that before did we have one in France? And all over the world, we have chapters. And he asked the question; and I made the inquiry and found out, even for myself, making me more educated about where Democrats Abroad resided, that there was, in fact, a chapter in Taiwan.
Mr. Yeager. Could I just interject here? Is it your understanding that Democrats Abroad is whether the various chapters are affiliated with the DNC formally?
The Witness. I believe that would be more in name than in practice or any other kind of relationship that would exist. And I believe they operate under their own bylaws, but I'm not altogether sure.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie specifically asked you about the organization, Democrats Abroad, or whether he just asked you whether there was an organization in Taiwan that he might support or be able to direct others to support?
A I believe he asked me if there was Democrats Abroad in Taiwan. And I mean that's my recollection from this memo.
Q Is it fair to say then that your recollection is that Mr. Trie actually asked you about the Democrats Abroad organization initially?
A I can't say for sure; but, based on my response in the memo, I would assume that that was the inquiry.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie did open a chapter of Democrats Abroad in Taiwan?
A Well, I believe that there already existed a chapter. How he may have related to that chapter and the contact, Tammy Turner, I do not know; nor have I heard of any subsequent followup to the memo.
Q Did he ever discuss with you organizations of Democrats outside of the United States after the date of this memo?
A Not that I can recall.
Q Did Mr. Trie or Mr. Green ever contact you about a trip that they were planning to take to Hong Kong in October of 1995?
A Not specifically. I may have known that they were traveling to Hong Kong or whatever; but I don't I don't recall, other than there being a dinner in Hong Kong that I was informed about, with Eric Hotung serving as a host and Ron Brown attending. But I don't know what year that was or I don't recall what year that was or when it was, but I have a recollection of knowing about that.
Q Do you recall who told you about the dinner?
A Could have been Kathy Hoffman. It could have been Charlie Trie or it could have been Ernie Green, but I don't know. I don't recall.
Q Do you recall whether you were asked for any assistance to help either Mr. Green or Mr. Trie attend the dinner you have described with Mr. Brown and Mr. Hotung?
A No, I wasn't because I had nothing to do with it.
Q Did you become aware after the dinner you have described that one of Mr. Trie's colleagues, Antonio Pan, solicited contributions at that dinner?
A I had no I did not know that he did that.
Mr. Wilson. This document's been marked exhibit DM15 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM15
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you organize a fundraiser on November 8 in 1995 at the Car Barn in Washington, D.C.?
A Yes, I did.
Q Do you recall who initially had the idea for this fundraising event?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you recall whether this was a fundraiser that the DNC initially sponsored or did somebody come to you with the idea of hosting of having a fundraiser at the Car Barn?
A We customarily or usually have at least one AfricanAmerican event a year; and we also of course, AfricanAmericans contribute to other events throughout the year. But, traditionally, there is an AfricanAmerican event; and I believe that this was the AfricanAmerican event for the 1995 calendar year.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie and Mr. Green were sponsors of this event?
A They may have been. I don't know if they were sponsors. They may have been chairs or they may have been active in the success of the event.
Q Do you recall how much money this event was targeted to raise?
A I don't know between 250 and half a million dollars.
Q Do you know how much the event actually did raise?
A I don't have a recollection, but it was slow, and I think it was about it may have been about 2something or I think we eventually closed it out at $600,000 in November or December of that year.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie attended this event?
A Yes, I believe he did, yes.
Q Do you know how many guests Mr. Trie took to the event?
A A boatload.
Q Approximately how many would you think?
A It looked to me anywhere from 10 to 12, something in that neighborhood.
Q Were photographs taken at this event?
A Yes, they were.
Q Do you know who was in charge of distributing the photographs after the event?
A No, I don't.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document that's been numbered F 0046082. It is a memorandum from a Maura McManimon to Mr. Mercer, and it's about proof of photos.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q The memo refers to proof photos that were pulled by Ernie and Phyllis Green. Do you know what this memo means?
A Yep. I think I pulled it from my files for you and others; and it's Maura, who was our events coordinator, informing me that Ernie and Phyllis and I'm not sure if it was both or one or the other pulled photos from October, or whatever event it was, for their handling.
Q Do you know how Mr. or Mrs. Green, Ernie and Phyllis Green, viewed these photographs?
A How they
Q How they viewed the photographs? Do you know whether they came into your office to view these photographs?
Mr. Reed. David's personal office?
Mr. Wilson. Yes.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q I'll follow up with other questions, but did they come to your personal office?
A No they didn't. As the memo is indicating, I'm being informed by a third party as to what transpired. So I was not aware of when they came in, if they came in, if they just over the phone pulled those numbers in conjunction with Maura, and they were delivered. I don't know what the logistics of that were relative to your question.
Q Do you know whether Ernie or Phyllis Green wanted these photographs for themselves?
A I am not aware of that.
Q There are a number of individuals listed in this memorandum who had their photographs taken with either the President or Secretary Ron Brown. Do you know if the individuals who are listed as having their photographs taken with either Secretary Brown or the President were invited by Charlie Trie to this event, to the Car Barn event?
A I am assuming that is the case, but I do not know for a fact who invited them.
Q Do you know whether the individuals that are listed in this memo were all contributors to the DNC?
A At the time, did I know if they were contributors or
Q Do you know now?
A Well, I see Celia Chau, and I only know from my deposition time at the Senate that she is or was a contributor, and I don't recognize the other names. And at the time of the event and seeing a Chinese or Asian, I should say Asian Pacific American group, I did not know at that time who was a contributor or who was not a contributor.
Q If we could just go down very quickly through this memorandum and if you could tell me whether you recognize the name as contributors to the DNC or whether you don't recognize them as contributors?
A May I add it may be more helpful to first let you know whether I know them at all first, as opposed to whether I know them and know them to be contributors.
Q Actually, if you would do that, that would be quite helpful.
A I do not know 009. I don't know 025.
Mr. Reed. Just for the record, David's referring to the photograph numbers that accompany descriptions with names.
The Witness. And the purpose for the number is because the pronunciation of the names is difficult.
Mr. Reed. Making our court reporter go completely insane.
The Witness. 025, I do not know. 026, I don't know. 027, I don't know. I do know 044. I don't know other than Charlie Trie and Don Fowler, 045. I do know 046, 047. 052, I know Phyllis Green. I know 055. 069, I do; and unless Pan in 069 is Antonio Pan, I don't know Yan Sheng Pan.
070, I do not know. I don't know 071, exempt for Lap Seng Ng, which I believe is Mr. Wu. 094, I don't know. Terry Boyd I don't believe is part of this group and may be an AfricanAmerican donor, but I'm not altogether sure.
098, I do not know. I do not know 099, nor 100, nor 101, nor 102, nor 103. 104, I don't know Celia Chau, but I've been presented with check copies, tracking forms, whatever. 163 is Kellee Baker, who I do not know. I do not know 164, nor 168. And 169, I know Ernie Green and President Clinton, or I'm aware of them. 170, President Clinton but not the Asian delegation. 171, Clinton, Secretary Brown I do know.
176, I don't know. 191, I don't know the reference to audience photo. 196 is the President approaching the podium. 206, I know Lap Seng Ng, being Mr. Wu. I don't know the other party. And then 221, 223, 224, 225, 226, I know the parties identified there.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall ever asking Mr. Trie at the Car Barn fundraiser who any of the individuals that he had brought as guests were?
A I don't believe I did.
Q Do you recall speaking with any of the individuals listed in this memorandum?
A Aside from maybe directing them as to moving from a photo line to the luncheon room or something of that sort, no.
Q After the Car Barn fundraiser took place, do you recall having had any discussions with Mr. Green about the amounts of money raised in conjunction with the event?
A I believe with most people, including Mr. Green, that I had discussions about closing out the event and collecting checks, as would be customary for anything that you received at the door; and I tried to get the remainder of it afterwards.
Q Did Mr. Green convey to you any checks in conjunction with this event after the event?
A He may have, but I don't recall specifically.
Mr. Wilson. This document may be marked DM16 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM16
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever have any discussions with Charlie Trie about an individual named Wang Jun attending a presidential coffee?
A Yes, I did.
Q What was the substance of the first conversation you had with Mr. Trie about Wang Jun attending a presidential coffee?
Mr. Reed. I'm going to object to the form, because there was no indication that there were more than one.
The Witness. As I can best recall, generally speaking, that Charlie was interested in having guests accompany him to an event, coffee, whatever it may be, that when we learned of his schedule and what schedule of events we had, I believe the February coffee was mentioned.
He asked if he would be able to bring a certain number of guests. I don't know if that was two or three or whatever. I remember telling him that, given the size of those events, that I thought it highly unlikely. I said I could check on the invitation of one additional guest, but that would be the bestcase scenario in response to his request.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did Mr. Trie tell you why he wanted Wang Jun to attend the presidential coffee?
A I don't recall him ever telling me a specific motivation, other than having him as a guest attending the coffee.
Q Did Mr. Trie describe to you who Wang Jun is?
A He probably briefly told me who he was, and believe subsequently that I had requested a bio and information with or on Mr. Wang Jun. Because, as anything in Washington, to respond to any requests it needs to be on paper. So I was anticipating that and secured a bio and the information necessary to get an answer on whether or not he would be invited.
Q Who did you ask for the bio?
A I believe I asked Charlie Trie.
Q And did he did he provide you with a bio of Mr. Wang Jun?
A Yes, he did.
RPTS STALLSWORTH
DCMN HERZFELD
[11:15 a.m.]
Q Did you forward Mr. Trie's request to be accompanied to the coffee by Mr. Wang Jun to anybody else?
A To anybody else?
Q To anybody at the DNC or the White House.
A Richard Sullivan.
Q Did you, apart from the bio that you mentioned a moment ago about on Mr. Wang Jun, did you make any other inquiries about Mr. Wang Jun's background?
A I believe I indicated his passport number, the basic information you would need to submit a name for attendance at a coffee in lieu of a social security number. I got a passport number and the date of birth.
Q Do you know who made the final decision to include Mr. Wang Jun in the coffee?
A I have no idea.
Q Did you ever discuss Wang Jun's attendance at the February 1996 coffee with Mr. Green, Ernest Green?
A No, I did not.
Q Do you recall whether you solicited a check for $50,000 from Mr. Green in February of 1996?
A I do not specifically recall soliciting a check for 50,000 from Mr. Green.
Q Do you recall Mr. Green making any contributions in the first half of 1996 to the DNC?
A Yes, I do.
Q And do you recall anything specifically about that contribution or contributions?
A That it was a $50,000 contribution. It's been listed as a 20 and $30,000 contribution respectively, which is just the Federal amount, Federal split. But it was one check from the Greens that was given to us around the time of February, and in and around that time of the coffee.
Q Did they tell you what the contribution was for?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Do you recall meeting with Mr. Green for a breakfast on the morning of February 6th of 1996?
A I could have, but I don't recall meeting him that morning, no.
Q Did you did you meet with Mr. Green for breakfast on more than one occasion in your recollection?
A I have I worked closely with Mr. Green. And over the 4 years that I've been at the DNC, I'm sure we've had breakfasts, lunch, and dinners.
Q Do you recall when and where Mr. Green gave you the $50,000 contribution for the DNC?
Mr. Yeager. Objection. I don't believe he testified that anyone gave him the that Ernie Green gave him the check.
Mr. Wilson. Fair enough.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did did Mr. Green give to you a contribution in the first half of 1996?
Mr. Reed. You mean to David personally?
Mr. Wilson. To Mr. Mercer personally.
The Witness. Not that I recall him giving me the check that we're referencing, him giving it to me directly, no.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall the circumstances of Mr. Green making the contribution of $50,000 in the first half of 1996?
A I believe it came in from Mr. Trie, but I don't have specifics of how the check was gotten to us into the office, whether he delivered it or I just don't recall that. But I believe it came from Mr. Charlie Trie.
Q And why do you believe that?
A Because I just have a vague recollection of that.
Q Do you have a recollection of any of the other surrounding circumstances of the contribution? Do you know who Mr. Trie gave the check to?
A I don't, other than he could have given it to me, but I don't recall specifically if he did give it to me.
Q Do you recall whether there was an indication of where the the check should be credited to in terms of its fundraising designation?
A I was given no indication by anybody externally as to how the check should be designated. That's more of an internal departmental decisionmaking based on the events that were active or that are open. And I would assume that it's the finance director's discretion as to what money gets credited where and how and when. But I got no direction internally I mean externally as to how that should be credited.
Q Did the did the finance director make all the decisions as to where monies would be credited?
A I think he was a part of the decisionmaking. Who else was involved, you would have to ask the finance director. And who he relied on or what other judgment calls he made in making that decision, I do not know.
Q Were you ever involved in that decisionmaking process?
A I may indicate for what my purposes and reasons may be for indicating where a check should be allocated to. That does not mean that that happens or was approved or that it didn't go elsewhere.
Q Do you recall having had any discussions with Mr. Green about any White House coffees?
A I may have. And you know, whether he was invited to a coffee, I'm not even sure that he did, at least under the auspices of the DNC. But I may have, but I don't have a specific recollection of on any one occasion calling him and inviting him to a coffee.
Q Do you know whether the check from Mr. Green was ultimately credited to a coffee?
A I believe it was, which, of course, has caused a lot of confusion.
Q And when did you first learn that?
A When did I I may have even put it down as the coffee on the tracking form as a reference point, but had you know, it could have been attributed to any other event that may have been open. I don't know, but I believe that that's what, in fact, happened.
Q Do you recall whether you ever credited any other checks, at least designated them, to a coffee for keeping track of them in fundraising?
A I mean, I don't recall specifically, but it's possible. And I've seen other documents that of or at least I saw just recently a check that I had solicited that somebody else wrote in not my handwriting but somebody else had wrote in for a coffee.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie contacted you after the February 6th, 1996 Presidential coffee and spoke with you about the coffee?
A He may have, but I don't have a recollection of him doing that. Excuse me.
Q Do you know whether photographs were taken at that coffee?
A I believe photographs are taken at most coffees, but I don't know if photographs were taken at that coffee. I'm not sure.
Q Do you know whether you received any requests for photographs that would have been taken in conjunction with the February 1996 February 6, 1996, Presidential coffee?
A Not that I recall.
Q Do you recall whether you ever asked anybody at the DNC to locate photographs that included Mr. Wang Jun at the February 6 Presidential coffee?
A I may have, but I don't have a recollection of that.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which appears to be handwritten notes. It's been marked F 0011427.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know what these notes refer to?
A I have no idea.
Q Do you know whose handwriting this is?
A I have no idea.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM17 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM17
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q During the summer of 1996, did Mr. Trie ever contact you in respect of the Democratic national convention in Chicago?
A Oh I'm sure he did.
Q Do you remember whether he made any requests of you?
A As probably a thousand other donors did, yes.
Q Did Mr. Trie contact you about anything involving the summer Olympics in 1996?
A I believe yes, he did.
Q And do you remember what he contacted you about?
A Yeah, how one would maybe attend the summer Olympics.
Q And do you know whether he did, in fact, attend the Olympics?
A I don't believe he did.
Q Between a 1995 and 1996, approximately how many times did Mr. Trie or one of his employees or colleagues contact you?
A I can't put a number to that. I will say that, while there were a lot of voice mail messages and phone tag and what have you, that I mean, in my mind I recall either seeing Charlie or talking with Charlie maybe 20 times over the 2 years, if that's even accurate.
Q Did you ever attend parties at Mr. Trie's Watergate apartment?
A I attended a gathering to watch the opening of the special of the Olympics one evening at Charlie's house or apartment.
Q And when you refer to Olympics, are you referring to the summer of 1996 Olympics?
A I believe I am, yes.
Q Did you attend any other parties at Mr. Trie's apartment?
A I attended no other gatherings, as I would classify it, at his apartment.
Q Did you ever visit his apartment on any other occasion than the one you described involving the summer Olympics?
A Probably two or three times, yes.
Q And why did you visit his apartment on those occasions?
A Either to drop off invites or to drop off a souvenir pen or those kinds of things.
Q And why did you visit the apartment to drop off the invitations or pens?
A Well, I think one first off, I think it's let me clarify that. I think the apartment was used as an office, and it was like any other responsiveness to other donors where I might have to drop off invitations or drop off a souvenir or whatever or meet with them at their offices as opposed to them coming to the DNC, which they also did. So it was not unusual for me to go by his office, if you will, on those occasions.
Q When you attended when you went to Mr. Trie's apartment in conjunction with the summer 1996 Olympics, were any other DNC employees there at the same time that you were there?
A I believe Lottie Shackleford, to the best of my recollection, was the only other DNC individual there.
Q Do you know of any other DNC employees that were there at a time when you were not there?
A Not no. I don't.
Q Did
A Let me you just just refreshed my memory that Susan Lavine could have been there. I have a vague recollection of her being there, but I'm not sure.
Mr. Reed. Is this in reference to the gathering?
The Witness. It's in reference to the gathering for the opening ceremonies for the Olympics.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know of any White House personnel visiting Mr. Trie's apartment?
A No, other than if you're getting to Mark Middleton being there. Mark Middleton was there, but I don't believe at the time that he was working for the White House.
Q Is it your belief that Mr. Middleton visited Mr. Trie's apartment, but only after the time that he had left the White House?
A I don't know that.
Q Were you ever invited to attend any other parties at Mr. Trie's or any were you ever invited to attend any function at Mr. Trie's apartment?
A My you see, my recollection because I never even thought about it in passing, but I was shown a call sheet in the Senate where there was an indication that Antonio Pan had called and invited me to another function, which I did not attend, nor did I recall it at the time, nor do I have any recollection of it now.
Q Do you recall what the event was supposed to be about?
A I do not.
Q Did you ever ask Antonio Pan for contributions to the DNC?
A I do not believe that I did, although it could have been of a followup of a question or an issue that I had discussed with Charlie, but I doubt it.
Q Did anyone ever contact you on behalf of Mr. Trie to arrange tours of the White House?
A Not that I am not that I recall.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Trie ever asked you to organize a private tour of the White House for him or for anybody else?
A I don't recall that, but I know that there is paper where I make a request and hand that in, but I don't recall doing that. And I don't know what the nature of the tour was or who was on it.
Q Did you ever arrange for Mr. Trie to use the White House Mess for the purpose of eating a meal there?
A Not that I recall, and I don't believe I did.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie was invited to use the President's box at the Kennedy Center?
A Could you repeat the question?
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie was invited to use the President's box at the Kennedy Center?
A I don't know.
Q Do you know whether the DNC ever paid for a cellular phone that was used by Charlie Trie?
A Not that I'm aware of, no.
Q Did you ever arrange for Mr. Trie to meet administration officials?
A Not that I can recall.
Q Did you ever provide an introduction for him to meet any government employees?
A I could have, but I don't recall my doing so.
Q Did Mr. Trie ever discuss his desire to be appointed to a Federal commission or board with you?
A He, I believe, but I don't have a specific recollection of this, that he had shared with me that he was being appointed to a board and commission.
Q Do you know whether he discussed his desire to be appointed to a board or commission in advance of the communication you just referred to?
A I was not aware of his being appointed to that board, nor did I have anything, I believe, to do with his being appointed to that board or commission.
Q Do you know Phyllis Jones?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who is Phyllis Jones?
A She's a political appointee at the Department or, excuse me, the United States Trade Representative.
Q When did you first meet Ms. Jones?
A I don't recall. I do believe meeting her for lunch at the Old Ebbitt Grill, I don't know recall the date, but most of our conferences took place over the phone.
Q What year did you first either meet or have a conversation with Ms. Jones?
A I don't know if it was '95, '96. I tend to lean towards '96, but I don't recall.
Q Do you recall whether you ever discussed DNC donors with Ms. Jones?
A I responded to Ms. Jones' request for the names and information on businesses that would be pooled, and it was part of her outreach to find different businesses to consider for appointments or recommendations for appointments.
Q Did she, on more than one occasion, reach out to you for suggested names?
A I think it might have been on two or three occasions.
Q And do you recall any names that you would have given to her in conjunction with her outreach efforts?
A Off the top of my head, no, I do not recall.
Q Do you know whether you responded to her in a memorandum form?
A I'm vaguely recalling that I did that or that I've seen something referencing that over the course of this inquiry.
Q Do you know Demetrios Boutris in the United States Trade Representative's Office?
A I know the name Demetrios Boutris who is not a trade representative. I know another Demetrios Boutris.
Q And where did you first meet the Mr. Boutris you refer to?
A I have never met him before.
Q Have you had conversations with him?
A I had a conversation, a brief one. The Demetrios us that I'm talking about is an employee at McAndrews and Forbes in New York City.
Q And do you recall whether Mr. Boutris that's employed by McAndrews and Forbes called you, or did you call him?
A I called him to get any ideas with regard to Greece and what I might see in Greece.
Q And was your interest in Greece in conjunction with a personal matter?
A That's correct.
Q Did you ever discuss Mr. Trie's placement on a board or trade commission with Jude Kearney?
A I don't believe I did, no.
Q Did you ever discuss did you ever discuss Mr. Trie with anyone in the White House Office of Presidential Personnel?
A I don't believe I did.
Q regarding Mr. Boutris
A Yes.
Q When when did you get Mr. Boutris's name for you to contact him?
A Eight weeks ago, seven weeks ago.
Q Was your contact with Mr. Boutris in the last 3 months?
A Yes.
Q Had you ever spoken with him before the last 3 months?
A No, I did not.
Q Where did you get his name?
A From Bill Lynch, who is also an employee at the company of McAndrews and Forbes.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Trie had ever made a contribution to the DNC prior to 1994?
A I do not know, aside from what I believe to be the first contribution of 100,000, which was, I believe, made in 1994. I do not believe or am I am I that I'm aware of any other contribution prior to that $100,000 contribution.
Q Did Mr. Trie ever have discussion with you during which he mentioned any other political contributions that he might have made prior to the initial 1994 DNC contribution?
A Not that I recall, no.
Q Had you ever been to Mr. Trie's restaurant in Little Rock?
A No, I had not.
Q I believe that when we were examining our list a few moments ago, one of the names from the Car Barn fundraiser was Tony Hsu, which is spelled HSU, and I didn't pick up on this at the time, but I believe Mr. Hsu is associated with an organization called the Chy Corporation, which is CHY corporation. Do you and you testified that you did not know who Mr. Hsu was, so I don't want to keep asking the same questions over. But in conjunction with the corporation called the Chy Corporation, do you remember ever having met or heard of Tony Hsu?
A No.
Q Do you know what the Chy Corporation is?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you ever do you recall having either solicited or received contributions from the Chy Corporation?
A Not specifically, no, although I know that I may have seen a check tracking form or copy of the check, but I don't recall making the solicitation. I don't believe I made the solicitation. I think it was money that was raised from one of our fundraisers, but I don't lay fundraisers, but I don't know the specifics of it.
Mr. Wilson. I have provided the witness with a document marked DNC 1479318, dated 11/21/96, entitled "DNC Finance Executive Summary."
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Is this the check tracking form you were just referring to?
A No, it's not.
Q Do you does this document refresh your recollection at all as to any contributions made by either Mr. Hsu or the Chy Corporation?
A No, other than the check tracking form that I saw, knowing that that they did make a contribution. I might add that these similar documents that you're showing me are printouts from our AS400, which the integrity of the data is something that we don't rely on and is something that so many people are involved in the process. For instance, I could do one event and then head out to another city, not be present when checks arrive, and people fill it out to the best of their knowledge. Based on that information that's recorded on the check tracking form, it then goes into the AS400. So you're not altogether sure of what the integrity of the data is.
But, I mean, only because I have seen the Chy Corporation copy of the check do I recall the Chy Corporation making a contribution. But I don't and I did not know if you had asked me earlier that it would be $20,000.
Q When you just referred to the integrity of data coming out of the AS400 as suspect. What data would be suspect?
Mr. Reed. With respect to this particular
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Well with respect just as a general, as in a general sense, what data would you feel could not be relied upon?
A For instance, I think there's a and you may have a copy of it there's a fundraising account that I was shown in the Senate deposition, supposedly with all the names of people who were attributed to my raising money from. On first glance, you would think that I talked to every one of those people and got checks from them. It's just not the case. While I may have been the lead fundraiser on the event, managing the logistics, also fundraising, what have you, people would just get the check, fill out the tracking form to the best of their knowledge, thinking that because David Mercer is the leader of the event, he's, in fact, the one who solicited the contribution, when, in fact, that wasn't necessarily the case.
Or it could have been a check where the person never even attended the event, they sent it into the mail. You would think that they attended the event because they're recorded as being in that event.
There's all kinds of hybrid situations that goes deeper,, and I'll articulate it that way as opposed to the integrity of the data. There's a whole lot of other circumstances that allow you to go deeper than at face value of the document itself, or documents, from the AS400.
Mr. Yeager. If I might interject, I gather from your testimony that you're referring to the solicitor category on the check tracking form.
The Witness. That is a reference as a hypothetical and an example in response to Mr. Wilson's question. But there may be other pieces of information. I know that what I know, for instance, if with regard to the address, phone number and everything else, that was very important for us to make sure that we had the correct information, not only for FEC reporting requirements, but also to be able to reach out to that donor to let them know that we were still in touch with them in hopes of them continuing to contribute to us.
So that data but again, you have people changing addresses or whatever. People could give us one address where it's their home, but they can be reached at their company, but you don't have the company address. There's a whole bunch of I'm trying to give you a sense for keeping track of this data and the dual functions of both fundraising and the collection, the inputting, and the processing of the data and all the circumstances that could surround just that process.
Mr. Yeager. One further clarifying question.
The Witness. Sure.
Mr. Yeager. If I may, counsel.
With respect to data required by the FEC, do you have any reason to believe that the data inputted into the AS400 lacked accuracy?
The Witness. No. And the only no, I do not. I believe that we've all read about the addresses of the DNC being put in under certain contributors' names, but I other than that, I would take that information to be pretty accurate, and based on what we have been what's been communicated to us from the donor and/or solicitor of the check.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever regard the dollar amounts listed in AS400 printouts as being suspect?
A No, because it is clear from the check what that what the dollar amount is, so I would not you know, unless it was a typographical error or something, I would not believe that that was something that would be questioned.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM18 and submitted for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM18
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. Could we go off the record for a moment, please?
[Discussion off the record.]
[Brief recess.]
Mr. Wilson. Back on the record.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know Pauline Kanchanalak?
A I know the name. I don't recall ever meeting her, but I could have been in an event that she was also in attendance, but I don't know that that's the case.
Q Have you ever spoken with her on the telephone?
A Not that I know of, no.
Q Do you know when she began giving contributions to the DNC?
A I'm sorry?
Q Do you know when she began giving contributions to the DNC?
A No I do not.
Q Do you know whether Ms. Kanchanalak was in contact with any of the other individuals in your office?
A I know from press accounts that she may have had interaction with John Huang, but I didn't know that before. And I only know that from press accounts.
Q Did anybody ever mention to you that Ms. Kanchanalak had an interest in working with the Bureau of Labor Statistics?
A Not to my knowledge or the best of my recollection, I don't know that.
Q Did you ever discuss the coffee, Presidential coffee, that Ms. Kanchanalak attended with Richard Sullivan?
A I don't recall having a conversation regarding Ms. Kanchanalak in a coffee.
Q Prior to prior to 1997, did you have any conversations with any DNC employees about whether Ms. Kanchanalak made contributions in her own name, or whether she made contributions in which the money came from somebody else?
A I believe that at the time of the press inquiries, but I'm not sure, I can't pinpoint whether it was from November, December, or January, or February of '97, I believe that I was present for a conversation with Ari Swiller and Richard Sullivan in which it was discussed that she may have, as the press was reporting it was a discussion of an aftereffect of the press reporting that she had submitted checks, and I don't even know the details, but somehow in the name of her mother or on behalf of her mother when it may have been her. But, again I don't know the details.
Q Do you know whether anybody at the DNC contacted Ms. Kanchanalak to discuss with her who had made the contributions attributed to her?
A No, I don't.
Q Did Mr. Swiller ever mention a telephone conversation with Ms. Kanchanalak about the source of contributions made in Ms. Kanchanalak's name?
A I don't recall specifically the conversation that I referred to earlier with Richard and Ari, and I don't in the sense that she may have made contributions in the name of her mother. But I don't know who knew that, or who was confirming that she did or not confirming, or I don't I don't recall.
Q When you had the conversation with Mr. Sullivan and Mr. Swiller about Ms. Kanchanalak and the origin of her contributions, do you recall whether anybody suggested that the DNC should take any actions in respect of the information that you learned during that conversation?
A I don't have I'm sure that there was some decisionmaking as to how to deal with the situation, but I don't I was not privy to that information.
Q Do you know John Huang?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you first hear Mr. Huang's name?
A I don't recall.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Huang?
A I believe it was in the fall of 1993.
Q And do you recall the circumstances of your meeting Mr. Huang?
A Yes I do.
Q What were they?
A They were in preparation for two fundraisers that we were putting together in either October or November of 1993.
Q Where were those fundraisers to be held?
A One was at it was a reception in the early evening at Creative Artist Agency. And the second one was a dinner at the home of Marvin Davis.
Mr. Reed. For the record, this would be in southern California?
The Witness. In Los Angeles.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And do you remember the months of those fundraisers?
A I don't know if it was October or November, even possibly December, but it's within the fall of 1993.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which has been marked F 0045577. It's a memorandum draft memorandum to Minyon Moore from Mr. Mercer, dated November 30 of 1993.
Do you recall preparing this memorandum?
A I don't recall preparing it, but I believe that I did prepare it.
Q On the final page of this memorandum, Mr. Huang's name is listed. Do you do you know why you recommended that Mr. Huang participate in this conference?
A Like I recommended the 20 plus other names on here, them being known as business leaders or and/or supporters, and both nationally and/or locally, and that they be recommended for consideration to participate in the economic conference that was scheduled around the same time that the fundraisers were scheduled.
Q Do you know how you got Mr. Huang's name for name and address for inclusion in this list?
A I believe Mr. Huang's name was among many other names of supporters of both the DNC, the President, and that we had talked with him about helping us for the fundraisers as well as probably talked to him about this. But I don't recall talking to him about the conference. And including him among those that would be discussed in we had his name and address on the lists that we had had.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this document Exhibit DM19 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM19
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did Mr. Huang ever pay any bills that you acquired while you were an employee at the DNC?
A Mr. Huang had provided an inkind contribution for a hotel bill that included expenses associated with the preparation of the fundraiser for several staff members that were there working on the fundraisers.
Q Did you discuss this inkind contribution with Mr. Huang?
A Yes, I believe I did.
Q Did he did he offer to make this inkind contribution?
A I believe I shared with him the request, and he was agreeable to conceding to the request.
Q Is was this a request that you made of him, or did you pass it along to him from somebody else?
A I believe that I made it of him, and I'm not sure if Nancy Jacobson had talked to him or not. I'm not sure of that at all, but I believe I was one that talked to him.
Q Did you know at the time that you were staying in the hotel that ultimately was paid for by Mr. Huang that he was going to be making this inkind contribution?
A No, I did not.
Mr. Wilson. So we have in front of us what we're talking about, I've given the witness a document marked DNC 3161227. It's a letter from Mr. John Huang to a Ms. Linda Sperber.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know if the amount of Mr. Huang's contribution, which is listed here as $6,500, was a full payment for the expenses incurred by yourself and other staff members?
A I believe it was, but I'm not altogether sure.
Q Do you know if Mr. Huang was reimbursed for this?
A I don't
Q For any of this contribution?
A I don't believe he was. I believe it was recorded as an inkind contribution.
Q How was it your responsibility to record this inkind contribution?
A It was to inform people of the inkind contribution, and then it got reported in the FEC reporting, or there was an inkind contribution form that we filled out.
Q Do you remember filling out an inkind contribution form for this particular contribution?
A I don't have the specific recollection, but I believe that it was reported as an inkind contribution.
Q Was there a a prepared form that you would obtain and fill out whenever you received an inkind contribution?
A That's correct.
Q And where would you get this form from?
A From the operations manager or whatever of the DNC finance division.
Q And who would you return the form to once it was filled out?
A To the person that was the operations director, or Neil Reiff handled, I believe, inkind contributions as part of his preparation for the FEC reporting.
Q Do you recall in the case of this particular inkind contribution whether you discussed the contribution in advance of Mr. Huang writing this letter?
A I may have with Nancy Jacobson or Laura Hartigan, but I'm not sure of who I may have talked to first or together or consecutively or how.
Q Do you know of any other payments made by Mr. Huang for rooms or expenses of DNC employees?
A Not that I'm aware of.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked as Exhibit DM20, and I'll put it in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM20
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q The this particular inkind contribution we discussed that paid for a room and expenses in a hotel, was there a usual type of inkind contribution?
A We yes.
Q Do you recall other examples of inkind contributions that were made to cover the expenses you incurred in a hotel?
A Yeah. Just recently I was in Boston, and the Copley Plaza Hotel put me up, because that's where we were having the event, and they gave me an inkind or complimentary value, the value of which would be an inkind contribution.
Q Prior to November 1996, did you personally receive and I don't mean you personally, but did the DNC receive an inkind contribution for your expenses in a hotel?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Prior to November of 1996, did the DNC was the DNC given an inkind contribution to cover expenses that you incurred in a hotel?
Mr. Reed. Are you asking if he is aware or if it's
BY MR. WILSON:
Q If you're aware.
A Off the top of my head, no. But there could have been certain situations that you're referring to.
Q Prior to November of 1996, are you aware of any inkind contributions being rejected by the DNC?
A Not to my awareness, no.
Q Aside from the matter we've just discussed, the fundraisers you mentioned in 1993, and the subsequent discussions over the inkind contribution we've just discussed, did you have any other contacts with Mr. Huang while he was employed by Lippo by the LippoBank in California?
A We Nancy Jacobson and I had visited his office on one occasion during our preparations for the event, outlining for him the activities for that day and asking him for his help or support in that activity. And I believe, but I did not handle it or receive it, that he attended that he made a contribution whether it was personal or corporate, I don't know and that he attended both the reception and the dinner.
Q Did you have any subsequent contact with Mr. Huang that you recall before he went to work at the Commerce Department?
A I may have, but I don't I don't have a specific recollection after leaving California of when we may have talked before.
Q Did you speak with anyone regarding Mr. Huang's appointment to the Commerce Department?
A No, I did not.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which is a appears to be a short memorandum to Mr. Mercer from Adam Crain, dated April 20, and it's regarding a followup for a May 10 breakfast with the Vice President in Los Angeles. And it refers to your wanting to contact Mr. Huang about a May 10 breakfast.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall inviting Mr. Huang to a breakfast at this time?
A No, I do not.
Q Did you have any contacts with Mr. Huang while he was employed at the Department of Commerce?
A Yes, I did.
Q And if you could please explain those contacts?
A Primarily phone conversations and discussing DNC activities or other activities, social or otherwise, and keeping abreast and in touch with him.
Q Did Mr. Huang contact you on these occasions, or did you contact him first?
A I I mean, I think we have had an exchange of phone calls. Who initiated this exchange, I don't recall.
RPTS STRICKLAND
DCMN GALLACHER
Q Do you recall when you first contacted or your first contact with Mr. Huang when he was employed at the Department of Commerce?
A Could you repeat the question?
Q Do you recall your first contact with Mr. Huang when he was at the Department of Commerce?
A No, I don't.
Q Do you recall any of the specific matters that you discussed when you had contacts between yourself and Mr. Huang when he was at the Department of Commerce?
A I don't recall specifics. But just in trying to think back. It could have been to invite him to events; it could have been informing him of the schedule of events and whether others would want to participate. It could, you know, could have been a range of things, but, I don't recall specifics.
Mind you, that I think there's a record of 15 messages over a 2year period. Given phone tag and voice mail, probably we had five conversations. And if you take my schedule, with a thousand calls a month over 4 years, you're talking 48,000 calls, and amongst those I don't remember the details of every one of them. So I can only try to at this time, best of my recollection, try to recall those.
Q Do you recall discussing any fundraising events while Mr. Huang was at the Department of Commerce?
A I don't recall specifically discussing fundraising events, but I would think it probable that I would inform him of the fundraising events and what the schedule was. And we often had appointees participating in our events as guests, and in some instances, there may have been people that they had been associated with before that may have also attended those events. But, you know, it wasn't an unusual circumstance.
Q Do you recall inviting Mr. Huang to attend a DNCsponsored event as a guest?
A Again, I don't recall specifics but that could have been part of our conversation. I believe he has attended one or two events while he was at Commerce, but I don't have a specific recollection of which events those were.
Q Do you recall whether you ever asked Mr. Huang to provide assistance in setting up meetings with Department of Commerce employees?
A I don't believe that I did, but I don't recall specifically not doing that. But I don't believe that I did because I don't I just no, I don't believe that I did.
Q Do you remember ever discussing trade missions while Mr. Huang was at the Department of Commerce?
A I don't recall discussing
Mr. Reed. With Mr. Huang?
Mr. Wilson. Yes.
The Witness. With Mr. Huang? I don't believe that I did.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did Mr. Huang ever provide you, at the time that he was employed at the Department of Commerce, names of individuals who might be potential DNC donors?
A I don't believe it was in the context that you're describing. I could have called him and asked him about an individual who I would assume may be associated with Mr. Huang, given that they share the same cultural heritage. But I don't believe that he proactively gave me information on people to follow up on.
I was somewhat aware of checks that had been at least associated with Mr. Huang prior to his appointment in 19 whatever year he was appointed. And I could have asked him about that individual or individuals. But I don't have a specific recollection of doing that.
Q Do you have any general recollections of names of individuals discussed, if you did discuss individuals?
A Well, I can say that I know that names that were associated with Mr. Huang prior to his appointment at Commerce that being Wiriadinata is a name that jumps out at me, which was maybe a check that was received in 1993 or 1994. But I don't no other name kind of jumps out at me.
Q Do you have a recollection, then, of making inquiries about checks received by Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata when the checks were received?
A Could you repeat the question?
Q Do you have a recollection of making inquiries about the Wiriadinatas either Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata when the DNC received checks from them?
A No, I don't.
Mr. Wilson. I'd just like to mark the document we were discussing a moment ago for inclusion in the record Exhibit DM21.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM21
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q How did you first become aware of Mr. Huang as a contributor to the DNC?
A I believe it was in the preparations and the sharing of information among staff in preparation for the 1993 events that were referred to earlier.
Q Did you have any contemporaneous knowledge of how Mr. Huang came to be hired as a fundraiser at the DNC?
A I think most of the information that I have since learned has been recorded in the press. Other than hearing maybe the idea that John was coming to the DNC, I did not know of all the logistics involved or discussions involved with John coming to work at the DNC.
Q Do you recall who first mentioned to you that Mr. Huang might be coming to the DNC?
A No, I don't.
Q Do you recall any of the individuals with whom you discussed Mr. Huang prior to his coming to the DNC?
A No, I don't, except that it wouldn't be unlikely for, in passing, Richard and I to have a conversation about it. But I don't recall having that conversation. But I leave open the possibility that we probably maybe talked about it.
Q Did you know at the time of his being hired at the DNC that Mr. Huang had been recommended by Joe Giroir?
A No, I did not.
Q When did you first learn that Mr. Giroir recommended Mr. Huang?
A In the press.
Q Do you know whether do you have any knowledge, contemporaneous knowledge of any individuals, other than Mr. Giroir, who recommended Mr. Huang for a position at the DNC?
A No, I do not.
Q Did you know
A Excuse me, contemporaneous knowledge being what has already been reported in the press and what I found out in the press, whether it be the President or other people in the chain of calls that are alleged to have occurred in the process of his hiring? That I know all through the press and did not know prior to its or it's simultaneous to it happening.
Q But prior to Mr. Huang's being employed by the DNC, is it fair to say that you were not aware of anybody recommending him for the position at the DNC?
A That would be fair to say. And truthful to say.
Q Did you did you know at the time of a professional relationship between Mr. Giroir and Mark Middleton and at time being at the time of Mr. Huang's being hired at the DNC?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you participate in any meetings prior to Mr. Huang's being hired at the DNC during which Mr. Huang was discussed as a potential DNC hire?
A I don't believe any that I was part of any meeting at which that was discussed.
Q Did anybody tell you, prior to Mr. Huang's being hired, that Harold Ickes had expressed an interest in Mr. Huang being hired at the DNC?
A Other than the press and your mentioning it now, I had not heard of that.
Q Did Mr. Huang ever discuss with you, while he was a member of the Department of Commerce staff, the prospect of becoming a DNC employee?
A I don't believe he did, no.
Q Prior to Mr. Huang's being employed at the DNC, did anybody communicate to you that President Clinton had made comments about Mr. Huang prior to his employment at the DNC?
A Prior to press accounts, I was unaware of that.
Q Did you ever directly solicit contributions from Mr. Huang?
A At what point?
Q At any time. Any time during your tenure at the DNC.
A Well, I think in 1993 that we had asked for Mr. Huang's support. We had told him what the membership or the participation levels were of the particular events. And from my standpoint, him being an elder and what have you, I deferred to him determining how he would participate. And as I had mentioned earlier, I was not the one that principally received the checks, so I don't know how he subsequently was involved, other than to know that I saw him entering the Creative Artist Agency event, and I know that from a table seating chart that he also participated in the dinner.
And from my standpoint again with him as an elder and with a principal in our mind, in my mind, I informed him, it was not a hard sell, if you will, to participate and we need this or that. It was more an information sharing and letting him know what what we were trying to do.
Q Did you have any subsequent occasions to make any requests of Mr. Huang that he contribute money to the DNC?
A I I again don't know and don't recall saying, John, I need you to write a $25,000 check. That's not the way I would communicate with Mr. Huang. But that doesn't mean that as a result of our conversations that he did not contribute, as I know he did in the 1993 events. But I would assume that other people had conversations or he had conversations with other people in making that determination and acting on it.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which is marked DNC 3078819. It's dated 12/3/96, and it's titled, "DNC Finance Executive Summary," and it appears to be a contribution tracking form for Mrs. Jane Huang.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever ask Mrs. Huang to make contributions to the DNC?
A Not that I recall.
Q Did you have you ever met Mrs. Huang?
A Yes, I have.
Q When did you first meet her?
A I don't recall. I mean, I have one just vivid image of her being at the DNC at the front desk, and I can't recall if I met her in '93. I can't recall beyond that. But I know what she looks like and I have talked to her on the phone, I know that.
Q Have you had any discussions with anybody about soliciting contributions from Mrs. Huang?
Mr. Reed. I'm sorry; what was the question?
Mr. Wilson. Have you had any conversations with anybody at the DNC about soliciting contributions from Mrs. Huang.
Mr. Reed. At any time? At any time has he ever had any conversations?
Mr. Yeager. I assume you're not including conversations with general counsel?
Mr. Wilson. Well, I am including any conversation.
Mr. Yeager. Well, I would object to that.
Mr. Reed. Well, let me just can I just consult with him?
Mr. Wilson. Sure.
[Witness and counsel confer.]
Mr. Reed. We would object as a matter of form to the question that call for answers to conversations that he may have had with Joe Sandler or other members of the general counsel's office of the DNC. But as a matter of fact, he did not have conversations with Joe Sandler.
The Witness. To the best of my recollection. And I don't think Mrs. Huang came up as a subject matter like, you know, I'm soliciting Mrs. Huang and she's going to do this. It could have been that she wrote a check and delivered some checks and I said to somebody that these checks came in or whatever. But I don't recall any specific conversation solely to do with Mrs. Jane Huang.
Mr. Reed. Just for the record, I want to acknowledge Minority counsel's objection and indicate that in order to obviate time wasted, haggling over something that may be unnecessary when those objections are made, I'm going to consult with Mr. Mercer and determine if there's any conversation privileged conversations that took place that we need to haggle about. If not, let's just move forward.
Mr. Yeager. Fine. And for the record, I made the objection because counsel for the DNC isn't permitted to attend the deposition.
Mr. Reed. We are certainly not waiving any assertion of the attorneyclient privilege that would otherwise attain, but we are trying to be sensible.
Mr. Wilson. I appreciate that and if we come to a point where we have to discuss that, we will do that at the time.
I've marked the exhibit we were examining Exhibit DM22.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM22
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q When Mr. Huang did become an employee of the DNC, did you discuss training with him? Fundraising training?
A His training or any training?
Q Any training at all.
A Not that I recall, no.
Q Do you recall ever having had any discussions with Mr. Huang about the law as it relates to fundraising?
A No, I do not.
Q Did you have any concerns at the time of Mr. Huang's hiring about fundraising in the Asian community?
A No, I did not.
Q Do you know whether any of your colleagues at the DNC and I'm asking for contemporaneous knowledge, not what you have learned in press accounts subsequently but do you know whether or not any of your colleagues had contemporaneous concerns about Mr. Huang's lack of background as a fundraiser?
A No, I did not, except for press accounts just for the record.
Q Do you know if any of your colleagues had any contemporaneous concerns about fundraising in the Asian community?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you know at the time whether either Marvin Rosen or Chairman Fowler had expressed a desire for Mr. Huang to be trained for fundraising purposes?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Huang did receive any fundraising training?
A No, I do not, other than maybe a staff meeting with Joe Sandler or whatever. I don't know for a fact whether or not he was a part of that or not.
Q Prior to press accounts about Mr. Huang at the DNC, did you know how much Mr. Huang was to be paid as a fundraiser at the DNC?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you know at the time there was an agreement to supplement his compensation depending on the contributions that he raised?
A No, I did not. I like these questions.
Q They go much quicker.
Did Mr. Huang ever organize or help to organize fundraising events for the President involving the President?
Mr. Reed. While he was at the DNC or at any point?
Mr. Wilson. I'll take that at any point first.
The Witness. As far as I know, during his tenure at the DNC, he helped organize events that involved the President.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And do you know the period during which he helped to organize fundraising events involving the President?
A From the time he was hired to the time that he left the DNC. I don't know the exact times of when he was at the DNC.
Q Do you know whether, at any time during his employment at the DNC, whether he stopped helping to organize fundraising events for the President, that involved the President?
A Other than the press accounts or from testimony in the Senate hearings, I did not know that he had been redirected to doing other things or was not organizing fundraisers other than when he left the DNC.
Q How would you characterize his role in helping to facilitate fundraising events involving the President?
A I would characterize it as a lead fundraiser on events.
Q And what does that mean?
A That means he had at least primary line responsibility for the activities associated with the preparation of those events, both in the raising of money and probably to a lesser extent the event logistics.
Q Were events and this is a general question that applies to your knowledge of arranging fundraising events at the DNC were events that were to involve the President treated any differently than fundraising events that didn't necessarily involve the President?
A If they didn't involve the President, the main difference that pops up in my mind is that it didn't involve the White House; therefore, briefings would not go to the White House or it may have, I don't know for a fact if they didn't. And, you know, I mean just in terms of the involvement of the principal or principals, if they weren't involved, then they weren't briefed.
Mr. Yeager. I think it might help if you broke the question down.
Mr. Wilson. Well
The Witness. I think we went through the same preparations in preparing a nonprincipaled event versus a principaled event. We went through the same briefings and what have you. I just think that the entities that were not present may not necessarily be briefed with the same detail. They may know that we have on our schedule a nonprincipaled event, which they were just aware of, being the White House. But I don't know that there were any other differences associated with that.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall any things that had to be done if the President was involved in a fundraiser that just didn't have to be done otherwise? Anything that was specific to Presidential events?
A Nothing comes, you know, comes to mind.
Q Were you aware and this is a question directed to the time period before November of 1996 of whether anybody at the DNC had discussions about Mr. Huang's practices or results as a fundraiser with anybody at the White House?
A No, I was unaware of that.
Q Did Mr. Huang ever request you to provide him with information about potential donors while he was employed at the DNC?
A Well, I vaguely remember him maybe asking me about an event or schedule of events and what individuals might participate in.
Q Did you interact with Mr. Huang when he was at the DNC?
A I would make it as comparable to when he was at Commerce. Maybe five times in any real exchange for longer than 5 minutes, 10 minutes.
Q He had, it is my understanding that he had an office that was not in the main DNC building. Did you ever go to that office?
A With the express purpose of visiting Mr. Huang?
Q Yes, to visit him specifically.
A No, I did not.
Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Huang had his own lists of potential contributors to work with?
A I don't know that for a fact. I'd assume in order to do his job that he did, but I don't know that for a fact.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Huang traveled and this is again did you know prior to November of 1996 whether Mr. Huang traveled outside of the United States while he was an employee of the DNC?
A I learned from press accounts that he had taken a trip to Taiwan, I believe, to the best of my recollection of that press account, but I do not I did not know that at the time or even afterwards prior to press accounts.
Q Do you have any knowledge of anybody discussing Mr. Huang's trip to Taiwan prior to his traveling to Taiwan?
A No.
Q Are you aware of any discussions between DNC employees involving whether Mr. Huang solicited contributions while he was in Taiwan, contributions to the DNC?
Mr. Yeager. I think he's just testified that he didn't even know about the trip to Taiwan, other than press accounts.
The Witness. That would be correct, and I don't know what the purpose of his trip to Taiwan was.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q When were you first aware of concern that Mr. Huang was raising questionable contributions?
A I was never aware that Mr. Huang was raising questionable contributions. I vaguely remember the first check which began this whole inquiry being a Choeng Am Corporation, which I didn't know was the Choeng Am Corporation at the time. But that they had represented that they were a U.S. foreign subsidiary, and it was later determined that their balance sheet showed no U.S. revenues. And this is all in retrospect and from press accounts, but I vaguely remember I was out in Los Angeles working on an event and the story was also broken out there by the L.A. Times.
So it was a combination of it being raised as an issue that I didn't know the details of and then learning the details in the press account. But it was the nature of the check. It was not, as you characterized it, Mr. Huang raising questionable contributions.
Q When was the last time you had contact with Mr. Huang?
A It was probably, maybe 21/2 months ago, and it came up in the Senate deposition. I was going through a phone bill for a cellular phone and it had fraudulent charges on it so I was going through all the numbers on it to verify what were my calls and what were maybe calls I didn't know and therefore attributed to fraud, and the phone bill was from October through December of 1996, at which point I had made a call to the Huang residence in California when all the news was breaking to wish them well, to suggest that they not worry, but, you know, I hate to see them going through this.
So ironically when I was checking through all of these phone numbers it was the night before I was due to go into the Senate deposition. I reached Jane Huang on the phone to my surprise, and then she asked if I wanted to speak to John. I said sure. John and I expressed pleasantries. I communicated much of what I communicated back in October of '96, and that was the last contact that I had with Mr. Huang.
Q And when was that?
A I believe it was late May, early June.
Q And I didn't understand exactly why you made the telephone call. Was your testimony just that you were checking the numbers on the bill?
A I had a phone bill from October of '96.
Mr. Reed. With hundreds of numbers on it.
The Witness. Yeah, from October '96 through December, maybe even January. And on that bill were it was like a thousand dollars, which my phone bills are never a thousand dollars. So I had to, for the phone company, delineate what phone calls were mine and which ones weren't. So I was sitting there late at night calling through all the numbers rather than waste time during the day to do that. And one of the numbers was 818whatever the number is and it turned out to be the Huang residence, which is a call I had made in October of '96 about the time of the press coverage of the Choeng Am check or whatever contribution. And, you know, John being on the front pages and my calling to say I'm sorry that you're having to go through this.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you discuss any of the possible subjects of your deposition testimony the following day?
A We did not. And for the record, I contacted my attorney afterwards, and it was ironic that the next day when I was in deposition that was the same question you had just asked me.
Q Unfortunate timing.
I'd just like to ask you briefly about three specific fundraising events.
A Uhhuh.
Q And again this is prior, prior to press accounts about any events involving Mr. Huang. But were you aware of any concerns amongst DNC employees about a fundraiser held at the Sheraton Carlton on May 13 of 1996?
A I don't have recollection, and my responsibilities in that period were almost exclusively directed at the preparations for the convention, so I doubt that I would have had any ongoing knowledge or even a cursory knowledge of that event, and it doesn't ring out at me at all.
Q When you were working on convention preparation, did you maintain the same office that you had maintained for the duration of your duties at the DNC, or were you located somewhere else physically?
A I believe from 1995 I've had the same office from 1995 to current.
Q Again, speaking of contemporaneous concerns, were you aware of any expressions of concern for an event held at the Hsi Lai Temple on April 12, 1996?
A Other than press accounts, I knew nothing about it, before, during, and after until it was done in the press.
Q Were you aware of any contemporaneous concerns surrounding a fundraising event held at the Jefferson Hotel?
A I was aware of no concerns, and I may have stopped by that event, if my memory serves me no, Jefferson? No, in fact I did not attend that event. Sorry. And I don't know any circumstances surrounding that event.
Q How would you characterize the relationship between Mr. Huang and Charlie Trie?
A Cordial, respectful, and friendly.
Q Were you aware of their ever having worked together?
A I was aware that they knew of one another. I don't know how they worked together. I know that when John had come to the DNC on staff, that at least to me it was more visible as to how they might work together or participate with one another in support of our activities and the reelection efforts.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Huang ever made any requests of you about Charlie Trie?
A I don't believe he did.
Q When did you first hear of Johnny Chung?
A In the summer of 1994. To the best of my recollection.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Chung?
A I don't I don't recall specifically whether it was at the DNC or whether it was at the Sumner Wells event for that was the Presidential birthday party.
Q How did you first hear about Johnny Chung?
A I believe through Vida Benavides who was in the political division of the DNC as the Asian Pacific American outreach person.
Q And what were the circumstances of the contact between you and Ms. Benavides about Mr. Chung?
A I believe it was in connection with the 1994 August Sumner Wells estate fundraiser.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document F 0046122. It's a memorandum to Mr. Mercer from Erica Payne from two individuals, Grace Ho and Vida Benavides.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you have any recollection of receiving this memorandum?
A Vague recollection, yes.
Q Do you know why it was sent to you?
A Because I was one of the lead fundraisers with Erica Payne on the event.
Q Did you have any discussions with anybody, prior to the fundraiser being held, about Mr. Chung, apart from the one referred to earlier?
A Maybe to follow this up, or when is this contribution coming in? I don't believe it was $100,000. I think it was anywhere between 60 and 80. And to the best of my recollection, that's what I recall.
Q Do you know whether you were able to allow Mr. Chung's parents to attend the reception, to attend the event?
A Yeah, I think it is a documented request. People were entitled to bring their quests, and this was just informing us that he was bringing his parents. So, you know, I think we just filed it and included probably subsequent to this memo asked for the names of them so they could be included on the guest list and coming as Johnny Chung's guests.
Q Did you ever have you ever asked for a background check or background research to be done on Mr. Chung?
A No, I have not.
Q Did you ever have misgivings about Mr. Chung as a contributor?
A I will say that I was struck by his company brochure that included pictures with himself and every Governor of every State in the country, including also the First Lady and the President. I just thought that was odd. But that's the I believe also just the knack for pictures and pictures and what have you. Those were the two issues that stood out in my mind most.
Q When did you first see the company literature you were just referring to?
A It could it was in and around the time of this event.
Q Do you recall whether Mr. Chung sent you materials about his company in or around the time of this event?
A I don't recall whether it was him sending it to me or me getting it from Vida Benavides or somebody else having it and my seeing it. I'm not sure.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM23 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM23
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And how did your relationship with Mr. Chung develop after this, the initial fundraising event that he attended?
A Keeping in touch, formal, and I don't think we dealt together with any other events or activities.
Q How often did you speak with him?
A In the 3 years now, maybe five occasions, six occasions. Somewhere in that neighborhood.
Q Do you recall soliciting any subsequent contributions to the one discussed in the memo we were just reviewing?
A I may have solicited him when I was in California in 1996 in preparation for our unity events in Los Angeles.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document which is a number of pages long and the first page is marked DNC 1587948. It is a memorandum from Mr. Mercer to Richard Sullivan dated September 14, 1994, regarding the Vice Presidential luncheon list.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And I think the only thing I'll refer to is the two sentences at the beginning which are: "This is the list you requested for the VP luncheon on 9/21. It is a pool of some of the best raiserswriters to draw from. Let's get together to size it down. Thanks for your attention."
When you referred to Mr. Chung as a part of the group some of the best "raisers" and "writers," what were you referring to?
A Probably from this, and not knowing him before the August event, the fact that he raised in the neighborhood of $60 to $80,000 was a good demonstration of abilities as a fundraiser or capacity to write checks and that therefore he'd be included I included him on the list of other people that had done comparable or more.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Chung ever solicited contributions from anybody else for the DNC?
A I don't know that for a fact.
Q Do you have any general knowledge that Mr. Chung requested contributions from other individuals?
A I don't have any general knowledge. My memory could be refreshed if I saw the checks that maybe were attributed to his fundraising for the August event.
Q Do you know why Mr. Sullivan requested the list that you have set down in the memorandum that we are reviewing?
A Other than there being a VP luncheon, the nature of which I was unsure of or I am unsure of, it was, you know I mean, this business is a business of lists and we were constantly being asked for lists of people to include in activities. So I don't know per se what that is without further information.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM24 for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM24
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Reed. Are we still on Johnny Chung?
Mr. Wilson. Yes.
Mr. Reed. I was going to suggest that when we finish up Johnny, that we recess and figure out where our schedule was.
Mr. Wilson. I think I probably have 10 to 15 minutes of additional questions on Johnny Chung.
The Witness. That's fine with me.
Mr. Wilson. If we could go through that, that would be best.
Mr. Reed. Fine.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever have concerns that the money contributed by Mr. Chung might not be his own?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ever arrange for Mr. Chung to meet with any administration or government officials?
A I don't believe I did to the best of my recollection.
Q Do you know whether he ever made requests of you to help facilitate a meeting with government officials?
A No, I do not recall him making the request or a request.
Q Did Mr. Chung ever express interest in trade missions to you?
A Not to me, no.
Q Did Mr. Chung ever mention John Huang to you?
A I may have mentioned John Huang to him, believing that John Huang was a leader in the Asian community and that if he had not met John Huang before or didn't know him, that it might be in his interest to know who he was. For the record, as I would if I met an African American who was involved in the process and didn't know other African Americans, I would introduce them.
Q Do you have any knowledge of whether Mr. Chung took steps to contact or meet Mr. Huang after this suggestion?
A I do not know.
Q Do you recall any requests for Mr. Chung to meet with Chairman Fowler?
A I don't recall requests. I vaguely recall that he did meet with Mr. Fowler, but I don't know under what circumstance or under whose auspices that that took place, to the best of my recollection.
Q Did Mr. Chung ever suggest to you that he would like to meet with Mr. Fowler?
A He may have, but I don't think that I'm the one who initiated the meeting, to the best of my recollection.
Q Did you ever make a request of any White House personnel on behalf of Mr. Chung?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Did you know, and this again is asking for contemporaneous knowledge that Johnny Chung and a number of Chinese businessmen attended a Presidential radio address on March 11, of 1995?
A Other than the press accounts, I had no idea that that had occurred.
Q Do you know of any subsequent conversations prior to press accounts about the March 11, 1995, Presidential radio address?
A No, I do not.
Q Having subsequently learned about the attendance of the Presidential radio address, did you recognize any of the names of individuals Mr. Chung went to the radio address with?
A If you mentioned a name, I would not know who it was nor could I pick anybody out of a lineup.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Chung was ever told of outstanding debts from the White House Christmas party?
A Other than press accounts and what's been reported, I had no knowledge of that.
Q Apart from press accounts, were you ever aware that Mr. Chung spoke with Richard Sullivan about going on a trade mission to China with Secretary Brown and the Department of Commerce?
A I never heard about it in the press and this is the first time I'm hearing it from you.
Q Did you ever receive requests from Mr. Chung to locate and provide photographs?
A I may have, but I I don't recall. And I think I believe it was in this deposition last week that we discussed my going over there on one or two occasions. I can tell you that it wasn't to locate Johnny Chung's photographs.
Q Have you ever heard of an individual whose name is Sheng Huaran, spelled SHENG, HUARAN?
A To the best of my knowledge, I do not know who that is.
Q Did you ever have any conversations with any of your DNC colleagues about Mr. Chung meeting Secretary of Energy Hazel O'Leary?
A Prior to press accounts, I knew nothing of it. Nor had discussions with anybody.
Q Do you know what the China Everbright Group is?
A I do not know who the China Everbright Group is.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document which has been numbered DNC 1781646. It is a memorandum for Jennifer Kaas from Mr. Mercer, dated April 18, 1996.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Who is Jennifer Kaas?
A She worked in the Office of the Chairman and at the time it would be Chairman Fowler.
Q Do you recall preparing this memorandum?
A No, I don't. But it looks like a memorandum from me.
Q The memo states that the chairman had requested a list of names. Do you know why these names were requested?
A The "re:" reads: Suggested names for special election prospecting, and I believe it was for a special election in that year. Which special election, I don't recall. And a list of those that might be interested in supporting the special election candidate for that race.
Q And what is referred to by special election in this context?
A Special election, as I know it, would be for somebody who's resigned office and a special election is held to fill the vacancy, but I don't know in what State or what office that was.
Q Do you remember why you included Mr. Chung's name on this list?
A As it refers to prospecting, I included his name as somebody that would be among the other names of people that might be amenable to doing that.
Q And do you recall why you included Richard Park's name on this list?
A For the same reason.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM25 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM25
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. Is it all right it we go off the record?
Mr. Yeager. Sure.
[Discussion off the record.]
[Whereupon at 1:05 p.m., a lunch break was taken, to reconvene at 1:30 p.m.]
RPTS STALLSWORTH
DCMN MAGMER
[1:55 p.m.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q When did you first hear the name Roger Tamraz?
A Maybe just in the office and his name coming up, being on a list, or that he was a major supporter or but I don't have any specific recollection.
Q Have you ever met Mr. Tamraz?
A I don't believe I have. I could have met him at a at an event in New York or here in Washington, but I don't believe I have.
Q Have you did Mr. Tamraz ever contact you by telephone?
A Not that I'm aware of, no.
Q Have you ever arranged introductions for Tamraz to meet government officials?
A Not that I recall or do I believe I was, no.
Q Have you ever assisted Mr. Tamraz in any way?
A I don't believe I have.
Mr. Reed. He meant knowingly.
The Witness. Yeah. I mean, knowingly or, you know, to the best of my recollection, no.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Prior to November of 1996, were you aware that other DNC employees were in contact with Mr. Tamraz?
A Not I did not know that for a fact, no.
Q Specifically, were you aware of whether Carol Khare was ever in contact with Mr. Tamraz?
A No, I was not aware of that.
Q Did you ever discuss Mr. Tamraz with anybody at the DNC
A Quite
Q prior to November of 1996?
A possibly. But I, other than press reports, didn't know what business he was in or what his interests were or anything of that. But it's not to say that his name couldn't have come up in conversation.
Q In 1995, prior to the end of 1995, were you ever aware that Mr. Tamraz had met Chairman Fowler in Chairman Fowler's offices?
A I was not aware of that.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document that's actually five pages. The first page is marked DNC 3116350. The second page is a memorandum, and the third and fourth pages are continuations of the memorandum, and the fifth page is a separate memorandum.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q If you would, please, focusing on the memorandum on the second page of what I've given you, it's to Don Fowler from an individual named Alejandra Castillo, dated July 12th, 1995, regarding a meeting with Roger Tamraz. Have you have you ever seen this memorandum before?
A No, I have not.
Q Do you recall whether you had any conversations with either Ms. Castillo or Ari Swiller in July of 1995 about Roger Tamraz?
A I don't believe I did.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM26 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM26
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Reed. Just note for the record, just to follow up on an objection that Mr. Yeager made last week, that we're not objecting to your inclusion into the record of documents that David can't identify or he's never seen before, but the record should be absolutely clear that you're including it for whatever purposes you have indicated, among those to permit Mr. Mercer to review them in connection with his review of his own deposition. So I want to make it clear he doesn't know anything about that document.
Mr. Wilson. Sure. Since the deposition began last Thursday, I have made a decision to include everything that I use in the record, simply as a convenience to refer to for anybody who's reviewing the deposition.
Mr. Reed. That's fine.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Actually, just turning attention again, before we put the memorandum away, it mentions during the body of the memorandum problems that Mr. Tamraz was having with the international business community. Were you ever aware, prior to media accounts in late 1996, of any problems that Mr. Tamraz was having with the international business community?
A Prior to media accounts, I have no recollection or do I believe I knew of any international business dealings as may be mentioned here in the memo.
Q Are you did you participate in any discussions during which Mr. Tamraz's potential participation in a Commerce Department Trade Board was discussed?
A No, I was not.
Q Actually, if we could turn to the final page of the materials that I've given you with this last exhibit, there's a memorandum for Roger Tamraz for Richard Sullivan and Ari Swiller dated March 28th, 1996. Were you aware in 1996, prior to November of 1996, of any contributions that Mr. Tamraz made to either State Democratic parties or State political candidates?
A This is the first time I'm seeing this memo. However, I think there were press accounts regarding contributions to the Virginia State Democratic party, as is indicated here on the 7/19/95 entry. But that's what I know of it, being a State the Virginia State Democratic party. And that's what I knew as is reflected here.
Q Did you ever participate in any discussions wherein people were discussing Mr. potential contributions to State parties by Mr. Tamraz?
A No, I was not.
Q The memorandum that we have reviewed from Ms. Castillo to Chairman Fowler, do you have any knowledge of whether anybody in the DNC, apart from Mr. Fowler, received this memorandum? And apart from the two courtesy copy names mentioned at the end of the memorandum, do you have any knowledge that anybody else received this memorandum?
A I do not have any independent knowledge.
Mr. Reed. Do you have knowledge that Mr. Fowler received the memorandum?
The Witness. No I do not.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did do you know whether Chairman Fowler ever offered assistance to Tamraz in meeting with Federal officials?
A No, I do not, other than what has been recorded in the press.
Q Do you know Eric Hotung?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Hotung?
A I don't have a specific recollection. I think it was in the it was in the last year and a half, 2 years, maybe.
Q Did you ever contact Mr. Hotung to ask for a contributions to the DNC?
A No, I did not.
Q Do you have a general recollection of how you initially met?
A I may have been introduced to him by Pat O'Connor.
Q Do you have any recollections of Mr. O'Connor contacting you regarding Mr. Hotung?
A Yes, I do.
Q And why did Mr. O'Connor contact you regarding Mr. Hotung?
A I believe it was referring to a meeting that had been arranged for him to be introduced or to meet Mr. Berger, Sandy Berger.
Q Do you know why Mr. O'Connor contacted you about this meeting?
A I've been associated with Mr. O'Connor before, so I have worked with him before. And I don't know what his frame of mind was or what motivated him to contact me. I can only assume that he knew me and brought it to my attention. Why he did to the exclusion of others or if he, in fact, did contact others, I don't know. But I don't know his frame of mind. I can only make assumptions about it.
Q When you just mentioned a moment ago that you've been associated with Mr. O'Connor prior to this particular communication. What did you mean by that?
A I meant that, as a supporter of the DNC, Mr. O'Connor was actively involved with us and that I had known him prior to his mention of Eric Hotung.
Q Just generally speaking, what types of matters had you and Mr. O'Connor discussed, aside from anything involving Mr. Hotung?
A We would discuss visits maybe to the Chairman or events that may be held in Minneapolis and them having a long tradition of supporting Democrats in Minneapolis and Minnesota. We would they would be a point of contact, as others were. And then, on another matter regarding Indians and the conversion of a dog track to a gaming casino, the purchase by the Delaware company to another group of Indians that would convert it to a dog track and the concern by Indians in Minnesota being having a concern that the development of that casino would affect their gaming business. And other matters that I was not fully detailed or had detailed information about.
Q What clients did Mr. O'Connor represent, to the best of your recollection?
A I do not know the answer to that. I don't know for sure his relationship with Hotung, the Indians or who else he may represent for clients.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document which appears to be a photocopied page of telephone call slips. It's been marked F 0040703.
And the call slip second from the top is to Pat O'Connor from David Mercer, and it mentions two things. One is first is wants David Mercer to follow up with him in relation to Hotung's several items. And the second is meeting with Don and Patricia Hotung.
Do you know whether you called Mr. O'Connor first of all, do you know whether you received this call slip?
A I don't believe I received the call slip. I believe that I got an indication that he had called, but I don't into the Chairman's office as opposed to calling me direct and being informed that he had called. But I don't know if it was related to this matter or at another time that he had called.
Q Do you know whether you called Mr. O'Connor back?
A Precipitated by this particular call message, I don't know if that's the case. But it's not to say that I, as stated earlier, did not have conversations on items as may be broadly described here.
Q Focusing on the first item described in the phone message, following up in relation to the Hotungs several items, do you have any recollection of of what this might have entailed?
A I don't have a recollection, but it might have entailed the Sandy Berger meeting. It might have entailed them participating in an event, but I don't know.
Q Were you aware of a meeting taking place between Chairman Dodd and Patricia Hotung?
A To the best of my recollection, I don't recall that ever happening, or I don't remember the request as it's indicated here.
Q Do you know Patricia Hotung was to meet with Chairman Dodd?
A No, I do not.
Q Did you arrange a meeting between Chairman Fowler and the Hotungs on September 14 of 1996?
A Not that I recall or nor do I have a recollection of being in the meeting or making those arrangements, no.
Q Did you ever attend any meetings with either of the Hotungs and Chairman Fowler?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Did you ever discuss the Hotungs with any governmental officials?
A I don't believe I did, no.
Mr. Reed. I assume the question was designed to mean in connection with their official capacity as opposed to
Mr. Wilson. Actually, I I will leave it very broad. I'm just trying to eliminate possibilities, whether you had any conversations about the Hotungs with anybody that was employed by the government in any guise or capacity.
The Witness. Other than being with Mr. Hotung and Mr. Simonton at the time that they not they but Eric Hotung had seen Mr. Berger. And I may have introduced the two, but I don't have recollection of it, but I may have done that. I don't know.
But, other than that, I have I did not make calls, I don't believe, to set up the introduction or anything like that. But I was present when when at least I saw them talking for anywhere from 8 to 10 minutes.
Mr. Wilson. This is submitted into evidence. It's been marked Exhibit DM27.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM27
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether the Hotungs ever attended a White House dinner?
A I vaguely remember that I may have seen them on a list; but I don't know if, in fact, they attended a dinner or not.
Mr. Wilson. I'm giving the witness a memorandum that's been marked DNC 3020787. It's to Chairman Fowler from David Mercer, dated September 14, 1995, regarding a meeting with Mr. and Mrs. Eric Hotung.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Having looked at this memorandum, do you know whether you organized the dinner between the Hotungs and the President and Mrs. Clinton on Friday of September 15th?
Mr. Reed. I'm going to object to the form of the question organized the dinner. I know what you're getting to. I think you might want to restate it, though.
Mr. Wilson. Yeah. Let me, obviously, back up.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q The memo refers to a White House dinner purportedly for September 15th of 1995 with Pat O'Connor involving the President and Mrs. Clinton. Did you have any involvement with helping to organize such a dinner?
A I did not organize the dinner with the President and Mrs. Clinton. However, I may have included them on the list of people who were attending; and that was in conjunction with Richard Sullivan.
Q Do you know what type of a dinner this was?
A I do not know.
Q Was it a an event for a small number of people or was it a large number of people?
A I don't know. For the record, I wasn't present at the event; and I don't believe I was in town at the time of the event.
Q And the concluding paragraph of the memorandum, it states, we will be helping to set up a meeting with the Hotungs at the National Security Council, hopefully with Sandy Berger. Who do you recollect the "we" refers to?
A It may have been I don't know for a fact who the we refers to, whether it's we, DNC, or we the DNC, Pat O'Connor, et al. Or I don't have a recollection of that. I think I'm passing on information that maybe was shared with me by Pat O'Connor and his making arrangements, but I don't know for sure that that's the case.
Q Did you request Chairman Fowler to contact the National Security Council to help set up a meeting with Sandy Berger?
A I don't believe that I did that. Again, as is pointed out here, I think I made reference to information that I had; and I don't know that I particularly requested of Mr. Chairman Chairman Fowler of Chairman Fowler to set up that meeting.
Q Where did the idea for a meeting with Sandy Berger originate?
A I to the best of my recollection and I'm not all too clear I'm assuming that it came from Pat O'Connor.
Q Do you recall either Mr. or Mrs. Hotung ever asking you to help to set up a meeting with Sandy Berger?
A I recall that neither of them ever did that.
Q And do you know why Mr. O'Connor was interested in having the Hotungs meet with Sandy Berger?
A I am not fully aware of why he would want that to happen or what his discussions with the Hotungs would have been in pursuing that interest.
Q Do you have any general understanding of what this meeting was to be about?
A I, sitting from a nonpolicy standpoint and position, assumed that he, being a British citizen and from Hong Kong, could give some insight as to the transfer from a British government or British possession to back to China. But I don't know that for a fact. I was only assuming that, given the facts.
Q Do you know whether a meeting between the Hotungs and Sandy Berger actually did take place?
A As I alluded to earlier, Sandy Berger had sat in the vestibule or area, as I can best recall, for about 8 to 10 minutes with Mr. Hotung as a courtesy and heard him out; and then they left.
Q And where did this occur?
A Outside of the Roosevelt room, I believe.
Q And were you there at the time?
A I was there at the time.
Q Who else was in attendance?
A Mr. Simonton, who I believe was also affiliated with the law firm of O'Connor and Hannon, to which Mr. Pat O'Connor is a partner.
Q Was Mr. O'Connor in attendance at this
A No, he was not.
Q The memorandum indicates that the Hotungs will be contributing $100,000 to the DNC. Do you know whether anybody at the DNC asked them to contribute $100,000 to the DNC?
A I think Pat O'Connor informed us that they would be contributing. And I was sharing that with Richard Sullivan, as I believe I was traveling at the time and, therefore, was not around when the actual contribution was made. So I don't know that he was asked per se, other than knowing that Mr. O'Connor had informed us that they were doing so.
Q Did you or the Hotungs ever discuss with the White House I ask you if you just strike that, please.
Did you or the Hotungs discuss these meetings with the White House or the NSC or other officials before you knew that there might be a political contribution?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Sure.
Mr. Wilson. I'll ask you to read the question, if you wouldn't mind.
[The reporter read back as requested.].
The Witness. No, not to my knowledge.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q The memorandum states that Mr. Hotung is a British citizen that lives in Hong Kong. Do you recall how you knew this at the time?
A I don't recall, but I'm assuming it came to me from Pat O'Connor.
Q Do you know whether Mr. O'Connor provided any biographical information on the Hotungs to you?
A He or Patricia's staff from New York may have sent me a bio.
Q Did you have any contacts with either of the Hotungs after the meeting with Sandy Berger?
A I don't believe I have, except I may have called to their New York home or office I'm not sure which it is to inform them maybe about the convention activity or, you know, some general operating business. But I don't recall on, you know, beyond that, any other exchange. And I never actually spoke to Mrs. Hotung; and I don't believe I've spoken with Mr. Hotung directly at any time subsequent to that or, for that matter, whether I did before other than to meet him.
Q Did you ever request any additional biographical information apart from that which you mentioned might have been sent to you by the Hotungs?
A Did I get more information other than the bio?
Q Yeah.
A Not that I know of or not that I no. No.
Q On the the bottom of the memorandum that we've been reviewing, there is what there is a handwritten note, which appears to state: Checks coming tomorrow. Do you recognize this handwriting?
A I do not.
Q Do you have any knowledge as to what this refers to?
A No, I do not.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM28 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM28
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. I have given Mr. Mercer a threepage document. It's titled: Richard Sullivan Call Sheet. The first page is marked DNC 3124452.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And I would like to refer specifically to the second page of this March 27, 1996, call sheet, which indicates that there are two calls from Mr. Mercer to Mr. Sullivan. The first was placed at 12:35; and the list says, please call, it's urgent. And the second is less than 3 hours later, and reads, please have Thomann stay off Hotung. Pat O'Connor will tell us when money is coming in.
Do you know what these messages refer to?
A The first one, I don't know, although I was working on a an event in New Orleans. And, as in many instances, there's issues that have to be dealt with and communicated back to the home office; and so it could be that.
Or, with regard to the second message at 3:15, I believe that Mark Thomann, one of our fundraisers, may have been in Minneapolis at that point or Minnesota and was soliciting the Hotungs; and I was suggesting to Richard that he let them know that they were simultaneously already involved with donating back in Washington. And I may have gotten a call from Pat O'Connor letting me know that and me communicating that to Richard Sullivan.
Q And what was the substance of the conversation between Mr. O'Connor and yourself?
A I don't recall. I'm only gleaning that from gleaning that from the message and note here.
Q Do you do you know whether Mr. O'Connor conveyed the Hotungs' contribution to the DNC or whether it was the Hotungs who conveyed their contribution to the DNC?
A I don't know for a fact because I wasn't there. I don't have a recollection I know it was conveyed into DNC; but who actually did the conveying, I'm not sure.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Thomann had any other contacts with the Hotungs other than the one that's apparently referred to here?
A I don't know, and I don't know for a fact that he had contact with the Hotungs in this instance as well. It could have been very well contact with Pat O'Connor, but I don't know regarding the Hotungs.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM29 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM29
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know James Riady?
A I know the name, and I may have met him on two or three occasions.
Q Do you recall when you first might have met him?
A I might have met him in 1993 as he was coming into an event, but I'm not altogether sure. It just would seem like a possibility. But I'm not sure that he actually attended, but I just have a vague recollection of that.
Q And do you know what that event was?
A It was the one we discussed earlier regarding the Creative Artist Agency event in 1993.
Q And what gives you the sense that you might have met him at that time?
A Because John Huang I know was there, and I just somehow I didn't see John standing alone. And just what I can envision as we sit here, I would think that Mr. Riady was there, and I may have shaken his hand as he was going to the door.
Q And do you recall subsequent occasions of meeting Mr. Riady James Riady?
A I the next time I believe I saw Mr. Riady was in 1996 at a maybe a September event at the Sheraton Carlton Hotel.
Q And were there subsequent occasions on which you met Mr. Riady James Riady?
A Subsequent to 1996?
Q To 1996.
A No.
Q Have you ever met Mr. Mochtar Riady?
A No, I have not.
Q Have you ever spoken with him?
A I've spoken with neither Riady on the phone or other than saying hello, how are you, and that's it.
Q Did you ever arrange introductions for the Riadys to meet with government officials?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ever receive any requests for your help to facilitate or help organize meetings between either James or Mochtar Riady and any government employee?
A I don't believe I did.
Q Have you ever met Arief or Soraya Wiriadinata?
A I do not believe that I have. If you told me who they were and had them in front of me, I'm not sure I could say I've seen them before.
Q Do you recall ever having spoken with them on either one on the telephone?
A I don't recall.
Q Do you recall ever soliciting contributions from either Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata?
A I don't believe I've having not talked to them on the phone or seen them in person, I don't believe I've ever solicited them personally for contributions.
Q Apart from media commentary on the Wiriadinatas, are you aware of any of your DNC colleagues soliciting contributions from the Wiriadinatas?
A No I'm not aware, except for maybe John Huang did, but I don't know.
Q Were you aware of contributions made by them at the time that the contributions came in?
A Could you repeat the question?
Q Yeah. Were you aware of contributions made by either Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata at the time that the contributions were made?
A There was one occasion that I know that they made a contribution, I think, around the '93 around the year of 1993; and then I'm not sure if it was '94 or '95 that they made a subsequent contribution. And I believe I was aware of that contribution coming in at that time.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document which is numbered DNC 1227446, entitled DNC Finance Executive Summary, dated 11/1/96.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And it pertains to Arief Wiriadinata. And the very last entry in a list of entries of what appear to be contributions is one for November 9, 1995, listing a $15,000 contribution; and the fundraiser is listed as David Mercer. Do you know why you're listed as the fundraiser in this instance?
A The check coming in to me and either me filling out the check tracking form or somebody else filling out the check tracking form and that being used to key punch in as to generating the report.
Q Having looked at this document, do you have any recollection of the November, 1995, contribution being made to the DNC?
A Other than documents that have been presented to me prior, I was not aware or would I have been able to recall that the that my name was associated with the Wiriadinata contribution. I had a cursory involvement with, I believe, the November 9th, '95 fundraiser and that myself, in addition to others working on the fundraisers, were named as associated with that event.
Or I could have received the check knowing that I didn't know if they were attending the event or if that was a contribution that I had associated with them being tied to, so I filled out the tracking form or somebody else did using my name. So I'm not sure which is
Q Do you know who else was involved in helping to organize the November 9, 1995, fundraiser event?
A To the best of my recollection, it could have been Mona Pasquil and and Sam Newman.
Q Did you ever ask anybody to provide background information on either Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata?
A I did not. But I'll state also for the record that them having been prior contributors I assumed the thought or the question of asking for background information just never even occurred because of prior contributing.
Q Just facially looking at this document, the first contribution listed on the document we're examining is the one made on November 9 of 1995. Were you aware of earlier contributions at the time of this contribution?
A I believe the Wiriadinatas I thought had contributed prior to 1995. And that's the recollection I have. And it could be under a corporate name or something else, but I don't know. I don't know why it wouldn't be or whether or not there's another page to this or I'm just not sure. It just sticks in my mind as them having contributed before.
Q Do you know whether either Mr. or Mrs. Wiriadinata ever contacted you after the November 9, 1995, contribution had been made?
A I am, to the best of my recollection, not aware that they tried to contact me.
Q Are you aware of any requests made by either of the Wiriadinatas to other DNC officials?
A No, I'm not.
Q Do you know of any DNC official seeking to facilitate visits to the White House by the Wiriadinatas?
A No, I'm not.
Q Do you know whether Mr. Wiriadinata ever attended a movie at the White House?
A No, I am not aware of that.
Q This document has been marked Exhibit DM30 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM30
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q When did you first hear the name Yogesh Gandhi?
A It had to be with a name that name, it had to be in the press.
Q Do you recall, prior to press accounting of Mr. Gandhi's political contribution, ever having spoken to him or met him?
A No.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a letter that has been marked EOP 05587. It's a letter to President Clinton from an attorney whose name is Richard C. Agins, AGINS. It's dated August 14, 1996. The singlepage document does not have Mr. Mercer's name on it.
This I'll give you a moment just to review this.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q This letter discusses a purported arrangement between Chairman Fowler and an organization wherein Chairman Fowler had promised two videotaped addresses in exchange for $50,000. Do you know of any such promise made by Mr. Fowler?
Mr. Yeager. I think I have to object to your characterization of a letter. I think the letter speaks for itself.
Mr. Wilson. Well taken.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you have any knowledge of any of the issues discussed in this letter?
A Yes, I do.
Q Do you know of of a dispute involving do you know any of the background of the dispute that's described in this letter? And, if so, what is the background?
A Yes, I am aware of the background. And we were introduced to the a representative or actually the president of Hermes Enterprises his name is slipping me now who was introduced to us maybe I think by a Christine Warnke of Hogan & Hartson, with the idea that he was interested in becoming a member of our trustee or major supporters program.
Upon meeting Mr. Fowler, he had asked or made a request of the of a videotape with Mr. Clinton featured in it to the Greek American community; and it was not anything tied to the contribution although, as this letter states, in his mind he saw the two things locked.
I first it was first communicated to me by phone by, I think his name is John Kalargios, spelled KALARGIOS; and it was kind of shocking that he was wanting to have a return of the contribution because we could not facilitate the production of videotapes, which were never promised, but conveyed that we would make a request and to see about the feasibility of doing so.
This letter seems to be a followup, which I have never seen, to that background information that I've just described here.
Q What did Mr. Kalargios tell you that Mr. Fowler had promised him?
A Well, I believe I was in the meeting; and he had made the request for a videotape to the Greek American community, him being a member of the Greek American community.
I believe Mr. Fowler sought or I may have sought to see what the feasibility of getting a tape made, and it wasn't feasible, communicating that to Mr. Kalargios as well as to Ms. Warnke and letting them know that, you know, these things aren't you know, one, we're not in control of the circumstances, so we can't speak to that. And, you know, if you gave the contribution based on that, then, you know, as far as I was concerned, return the money and let them be you know, what he proceed as he wants to.
Q You've you just referred to a meeting that took place. Who who attended the meeting that you referred to?
A I believe it was myself, Don Fowler, Mr. Kalargios, and I am not sure that Christine Warnke was there, but I believe she was.
Q And do you recall when that meeting took place?
A I believe it was in December of 1996 excuse me, December of 1995.
Q Do you know if any videotape of any sort was provided for the Hermes organization?
A No, it was not to the best of my knowledge.
Q This document has been marked Exhibit DM31 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM31
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know Ramesh Kapur?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you have you ever met Mr. Kapur in person?
A Yes, I have.
Q Where did you first meet Mr. Kapur?
A I don't recall when the first time I met him is. Suffice it to say, though, I've known of him or I've known him or seen him over the last 2 or 3 years.
Q Do you know of any efforts to organize a meeting between Mr. Kapur and any government official?
A No, I don't.
Q Are you aware of Mr. Kapur ever having met with Roger Johnson at any time in 1995 or 1996?
A It's the first time I'm hearing it.
Q Do you know an individual named Monsoor Ijaz?
A Ijaz?
Q Ijaz.
A I know the name. I don't know what he looks like, nor what he does or who he is.
Mr. Reed. How do you spell that last name?
Mr. Wilson. IJAZ.
The Witness. I thought it was A, but
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether he made any contributions to the DNC?
A I'm assuming, hearing of him in my department or seeing the name, that he was probably a major supporter of ours; but I don't know when he made contributions and what he participated in.
Q Do you have any knowledge of whether Mr. Ijaz met with government any government officials in 1995 or 1996?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q Do you know who George Chu is?
A Yes, I do.
Q Do you know what his occupation is?
A Not per se, no. Some counsel or I'm not sure what his I know he chairs or is president of some entity, the interest of which I don't know.
Q Did you ever solicit contributions from Mr. Chu?
A Yes, I did. In the winter in the early part of 1997.
Q Did you have any interaction with Mr. Chu before November of 1996?
A I don't believe I did, no.
Q Do you know either Jim Irwin or Joseph Ruggiero of the IMPAC organization?
A The names again.
Q Jim Irwin or Joseph Ruggiero from the IMPAC IMPAC organization?
A Is that out of New York?
Q I actually don't know where it's
A There's a Ragio. I don't know if that's a misspelling, but
Q I do know the spelling of the name is RUGGIERO.
A I don't know who that is.
Q Do you have any knowledge of a meeting between Chairman Fowler, John Huang and Ambassador March Fong Eu in April of 1996?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you know March Fong Eu Ambassador March Fong Eu?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you first meet?
A I think I first met her in the fall of 1996, although I had heard about her I think before that.
Q What were the circumstances of you meeting her?
A In participating in one of our unity events in the fall, I believe it was October, of 1996.
Q And do you know whether she did participate in this event?
A She did participate.
Q Did you have conversations with her about participating in the unity event?
A I don't think I did directly with her, most likely with David Lai, although I did talk to her briefly at the event.
Q Who is David Lai?
A He's an associate of Ms. or Ambassador March Fong Eu's. In what capacity, I'm not sure.
Q Do you know if Ambassador March Fong Eu ever provided fundraising names to the DNC?
A I don't know if she provided names. I know that, from David Lai's representation, that she was active in helping us raise funds. Whether I don't know if she actually solicited them or what have you, but she represented those that did contribute and was attending as a part of that and may have written her own check. I'm not sure.
Q What did David Lai tell you she was doing to help raise funds for the DNC?
A I don't think he was specific as to the people she was calling or how she was calling.
My conversations with David Lai were the logistics of the event when to come, all that business, and the names of the people that would be on the guest list and the amount of money that would be forwarded to the DNC.
Subsequent conversations have had to deal with wanting to meet with the current chairman, given the Asian community's sensitivity to the inquiries over the last 8 months.
Q And when have these subsequent conversations taken place?
A Probably April or May I received my first call from David Lai expressing an interest and communicating the sorrow and the grievance of the Asian American community with regard to the inquiries made and targeted to the Asian American community.
Q And is that April and May of 1997?
A That's correct.
Q Okay. You stated earlier in this deposition that you've you knew Secretary Ron Brown since your childhood. Did you have regular contacts with Secretary Brown while he was at the Department of Commerce?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ever discuss trade missions with Secretary Brown?
A Never.
Q Do you know Michael Brown?
A Yes, I do.
Q How do you know Michael Brown?
A I believe the first time I met Michael Brown was when we were both working on his father's campaign to be the first African American Chairman of the DNC.
Q And when was that?
A That would have been in 1989, '90.
Q How often did you speak with Michael Brown during 1996 prior to November of 1996?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Yeah. How often do you recall speaking with Michael Brown in 1996 prior to November of 1996?
A So you're asking me within the year of 1996 how often we would be
Q Uhhuh.
A Maybe, I don't know, anywhere between 5 and 10 times, 10 times being the high end if at all.
Q Are you still in regular contact with Mr. Michael Brown?
A I wouldn't call it regular contact, but I call it familiar contact.
Q Are you familiar with an organization called America's Fund?
A Yes, I am.
Q What is America's Fund?
A America's Fund was started as a following the paradigm of Emily's List, being that there were no comparable organizations. As Emily's List is to women, what America's Fund would like to be to the African American community in supporting African American candidates that were responsive to the the urban policy needs of concerning urban issues.
Q When did you first become familiar with America's Fund?
A Probably in 1993 or 1994. I attended a reception on Jackson Place, which could have been the kickoff to it, but I'm not sure if it was a kickoff or just an annual event.
Q Are you aware of any meeting between Michael Brown and Chairman David Wilhelm at the DNC?
A Vaguely. I know Ron I mean Michael has met with probably Chairman Fowler, and I know he's met with Chairman Grossman, excuse me, regarding America's Funds and America's Fund and ideas. But it was a nonpartisan organization; and thought was given to whether or not they would change their charter to a partisan organization, which is currently what it's doing now is determining whether or not it's becoming a partisan organization as opposed to a nonpartisan organization, supporting Republicans and/or Democrats.
Q What is Michael Brown's role in America's Fund? What was it when you first became aware of America's Fund? What is it now?
A I believe a board member.
Q Do you know who else other board members of America's Fund?
A Jeff Scruggs. Brian Mathes is the founder. I think America's Fund was based on a thesis he wrote while at the Harvard Business School or Harvard Law School. Carolyn Carol Crawford. And off the top of my head the other names are not coming to me.
Q Did you arrange the meetings you described between Michael Brown and Chairman Wilhelm and then later Chairman Fowler and Grossman?
A I believe that Michael can call any chairman, given that his dad was a chairman, and they would be receptive to meeting them. I think I was then later informed that he was meeting and either I would participate or it was just an FYI.
Q Did you attend Michael Brown's meeting with Chairman Wilhelm?
A I don't recall doing so, but it's quite possible I did.
Q Do you recall whether you attended Michael Brown's meeting with Chairman Fowler?
A The answer would be the same. I could have, but I don't recall doing so.
Q Do you know if he had more than one meeting with Chairman Fowler?
A I don't know how many meetings he's had, off the top of my head.
Mr. Reed. And do you recall whether you attended Mr. Brown's meeting with Chairman Grossman?
The Witness. Yes, I do.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And did you attend?
A Yes, I did.
Q Was there more than one meeting with Chairman Grossman?
A I think this was one I did attend, and there may have been another subsequent meeting, but I'm not sure of that.
Q And what was the substance of what was discussed in the meeting with Chairman Grossman, to the extent you remember?
A It was about America's Fund and where it's heading and an update on that; the contemplation of maybe becoming a Democratic PAC, if you will, as opposed to a nonpartisan PAC; the Chairman's storytelling about his relationship with Michael Brown's father and and that being the todo with the Chairman's support of Ron Brown during his candidacy for the chairmanship back in '89 when I believe the current chair was then at that time the State chair of Massachusetts. And then, also, picking Michael's brain for outreach to the African American community, what we can be doing better, how we reach the generation coming up, the kind of staffing at the DNC.
RPTS STRICKLAND
DCMN GALLACHER
[3:00 p.m.]
Q Did the DNC ever make contributions to America's Fund.
A We did not, as far as I am concerned or know.
Q In any of the meetings that you participated in with Michael Brown at the DNC, were Gene or Nora or Trisha Lum ever discussed?
A Not to my knowledge. The only time I knew of the Lums was through the papers and I met the two daughters at a wedding in Chicago.
Q Whose wedding was it that you met the daughters at?
A It was at Michael Frazier and Carla Dibble's wedding.
Q Did Michael Brown ever discuss with you his position as president of Dynamic Energy Resources?
A Only that he was going to that company, I believe, or was leaving or something. But it was in general reference. I didn't I didn't know at the time who, who they were or what the company was.
Q Did he ever discuss his relationship with Gene or Nora Lum with you?
A We had dinner probably 3 months ago, and only mentioned that they were, you know, about the FBI deal, which I can't even recall what he told me, but it was only that, you know, that they were talking to the FBI, but I don't know what juncture, whether that was when they pleaded or what. But it was very brief.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a multipage document; the first page is DNC 3025392. This includes Chairman Fowler's schedule for July 12, 1995. And on the second page of the schedule at 11 a.m. there is reference to a meeting with Michael Brown, Minyon Moore to attend this meeting.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether you attended this meeting as well?
A I I can't recall if I did or not. Nothing is striking me that
Q Do you recall attending any meetings with Chairman Fowler during which an individual named Alex was in attendance?
A I believe I mean Alejandra Castillo could be referring this could be a reference to Alejandra Castillo. I mean, that's my only feedback.
Mr. Wilson. This document's marked Exhibit DM32 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM32
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know either Nora or Gene Lum?
A I do not.
Q Have you personally met them at any time?
A I don't believe I have.
Q Do you know an individual named Al Wong?
A Al Wong?
Q WONG.
A Not off the top of my head, no.
Q Prior to November of 1996, did you ever discuss either Nora or Gene Lum with anybody at the DNC?
A I'm sure with the press accounts, and being that given within the campaign finance stuff and them being, you know, high profile, that there had to be conversation in the halls or in the offices about, you know, getting the clips, reading the clips and going, Wow, the Lums
Q But prior to any press discussion of the Lums, do you recall any conversations with colleagues at the DNC about Nora or Gene Lum or Dynamic Energy Resources?
A No, I don't. Well, let me qualify that and say that I can't recall I knew that they participated in the convention gala, the last night of the convention. But I believe I only knew that after press accounts were asking us for what they did to participate in the gala. But I could have known, even though I had nothing to do with the gala preparations at the convention, I could have known but I'm not recalling that they participated but I never saw them in Chicago, and I didn't, you know.
Q Has Michael Brown ever discussed with you his business activities in Oklahoma?
A Never.
Q Did you recommend to the Lums or anyone associated with the Lums that they donate to a specific campaign or event?
A Never.
Q Do you know an individual named Ray McClendon?
A Yes, I do.
Q Who is Mr. McClendon?
A Mr. McClendon is a partner in the firm of Pryor, McClendon, Counts, et al, an investment banking firm, one of the minority top 10, I believe, minority banking firms.
Q Did you arrange a meeting between Chairman Fowler and Mr. McClendon in late 1995?
A From the tone of the question, I presume I did.
Q I'm actually, to be perfectly honest, not sure. Although I will give you a document that maybe will refresh your recollection a little bit.
Mr. Wilson. I've provided Mr. Mercer with a document that's marked DNC 3021859. It's three pages in length with three separate documents. The first page is titled, "Memorandum for Chairman Fowler."
If you could take just a moment to review this.
Q Do you recall preparing this memorandum?
A I don't recall specifically but I know I believe it is a memorandum that I prepared for Mr. Fowler, yes.
Q Do you know whether a meeting between Mr. McClendon and Mr. Fowler did take place?
A I believe it did, to the best of my recollection.
Q Did you attend a meeting between Mr. Fowler and Mr. McClendon?
A I'm assuming that I did, but I don't know for a fact that I did. I believe I did, though.
Q Do you have any recollection of anybody else who might have attended a meeting between Fowler and McClendon?
A The recollection that I have is walking Ray McClendon out of the building and talking with him after a meeting. I'm presuming it is this meeting, and I believe he was alone.
Q The first page of this memorandum states that Mr. McClendon was upset that his firm and other minorityowned firms were not invited to bid on a Department of Energy project. Did you discuss this with Mr. McClendon?
A Yes, I did. And, mind you, with other firms.
Q What did Mr. McClendon communicate to you?
A What you just read.
Q Did he provide any amplification, beyond what's set out in the memorandum in front of us?
A Other than, you know, being a minority banking interest, competing with the other firms. And he wasn't the only one. And I don't believe there was one African American considered. And it was my job to pass that information on for those who wanted to listen.
Q Did you ever contact anybody at the Department of Energy about this matter?
A I don't believe that I did, no no, I don't believe that I did. I could have, but I don't think I did.
Q Do you know whether Chairman Fowler ever contacted anybody at the Department of Energy about the matter discussed in this memorandum?
A That I am unaware of.
Q Do you know whether Chairman Fowler, or yourself, contacted anybody in the White House to relay Mr. McClendon's concern that is outlined in this memorandum?
A I may have done that into the political division, but I don't know who I would have talked to or who I did talk to. And it wasn't specific to the Energy Department; it was, you know, if you continue further in the memo, you know, affirmative action is a big concern. It has been in the paper recently. It has been in the paper over the last 4 years. And see it's in that context that it may have been conveyed to the White House. But I don't have a specific recollection of who I may have contacted on that issue.
Q The second page of the three that I've given you is a memorandum from David Mercer to Chairman Fowler dated September 25, 1995, regarding a request of meeting between Ray McClendon and Malcomb Pryor. Do you recognize the writing at the bottom of this page?
A I don't. It looks like notes from the meeting, though.
Q One of the notations in the handwritten section is the words "Ron Brown" with an arrow pointing to present. Do you know what that's referring to?
A I have no idea.
Q Did Mr. Brown attend any meetings that you're aware of between Mr. McClendon and anybody from the DNC?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Did Mr. Brown attend any meetings between Mr. McClendon and anybody at the DNC?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q The notes also state that no contact can be made with officials at RFP.
A Where are you reading from?
Q In the top lefthand corner, the circled notes.
A Uhhuh.
Q Do you know what this would refer to?
A I don't. This is the first, for the record, that I'm seeing
Q Sure.
A this memo with the notes on top of it. Notes that aren't mine.
Q Three entries up from the bottom of the page, there's another handwritten notation that says, "want contract to propose how to sell USDE." Do you have any knowledge
Mr. Reed. I'm sorry; where's that?
Mr. Wilson. The third marked entry from the bottom of the page: Want contact or contract to propose how to sell USDE.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you have any knowledge of what that means?
A I do not.
Q There's also a reference in the handwritten notes here at the very top of the section of handwritten notes just underneath the circled entry that says, "write 10 K a piece/year" and then under that "raise 3050 K/year." Do you know what these figures refer to?
A I could only guess and that being that it was the history of support by Ray McClendon and/or Malcomb Pryor.
Q And "support" meaning support to the DNC?
A Correct, or in fact the reelect at least it says an indication to the reelect. But it probably wasn't writing 10 K for the reelect, because the most you can write to a reelection campaign is $1,000, so I'm not sure entirely what that means.
Q This second memorandum, the one that we've been referring to is cc'd to Richard Sullivan and Catherine York. Do you recall what their involvement in this matter was?
A Other than Catherine York being his scheduler at the time, and Richard being the finance director, and the courtesy of FYI, I'm not sure how else they may have been involved as they saw fit.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked as Exhibit DM33 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM33
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall any contact with a James Staffors who worked for American Home Products?
A Not off the top of my head, no.
Q Do you recall any contacts with an individual named James Belcher who worked for the Peat Rubber Company?
A Off the top of my head, no.
Mr. Reed. That last name was?
Mr. Wilson. Belcher, BELCHER.
Mr. Reed. First name?
Mr. Wilson. James.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall discussions with any of your colleagues involving concerns about a rubber plantation in Liberia?
A Not that I no. Just rolling back tape.
Q I'm rolling through some fairly obscure subjects right now.
Mr. Reed. Not for the Liberians.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q This will be fairly brief. Have you heard of the Ellicott Machine Corporation?
A No.
Q Have you heard of an individual named Bowe, which is BOWE?
A From where?
Q He's a principal at the Ellicott Machine Corporation and I believe resides in Maryland.
A I don't know who he is.
Q Do you know Farhad Azima?
A I know the name.
Q And how do you know the name?
A One, as a major supporter; and, secondly, I believe I flew with Mr. Fowler, as I believe Fred Thompson has too, on Mr. Azima's plane coming back, for the record, from Louisiana to D.C.
Q Do you recall whether your travel on his airplane was reported as an inkind contribution from Mr. Azima to the DNC?
A Not only do I not recall, I don't recall how it was arranged, handled, or whatever. I was just told that's how I was flying back.
Q Do you know whether Chairman Fowler traveled on Mr. Azima's airplane on occasions other than the one you have just mentioned?
A I've heard rumor that there may be another occasion, but I don't know for a fact when he's traveled on Mr. Fahad Azima's plane.
Q How were inkind contributions involving air transportation of this nature disclosed?
A I don't know because I never arranged for private I can tell you that the airline companies have donated or contributed inkind and that's handled through the inkind reporting forms, and I would assume that the private planes were handled the same way, but I don't know for a fact.
Q On the occasion that you traveled with Mr. Azima, do you recall what you did regarding the travel on his airplane?
A To qualify, I didn't ever travel with Mr. Fahad Azima. It was the pilot, myself, and Mr. Fowler on the plane. And I don't recall doing anything other than traveling on the plane, getting off and going home.
Q Have you ever met an individual named Jeffrey Hirschberg?
A Yes.
Q Who is Mr. Hirschberg?
A I believe he's a vice chairman at the Ernst and Young firm.
Q Did you ever solicit contributions from Mr. Hirschberg?
A Yes, I believe I have.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Hirschberg?
A I can't pinpoint it. I believe it had to be from when I first started in 1993. I'm sure I met him at some point or it could have been '94, I'm not sure.
Q Was Mr. Hirschberg designated a trustee or managing trustee at the DNC?
A I'm sure managing trustee or one or the other.
Q Do you know how much Mr. Hirschberg contributed to the DNC?
A No, but I know that he was a he was a loyal supporter of ours. But I don't know the numbers off the cuff.
Q Did Mr. Hirschberg ever visit you in your office at the DNC?
A I don't think with the expressed interest to come see me, but out of courtesy in seeing others would stop by my office to say hello and how are you and what's going on?
Q Did you ever visit Mr. Hirschberg in his office?
A I don't believe I even know where the offices are.
Q Do you know Mark Nichols?
A Yes, I do.
Q When did you first meet Mr. Nichols?
A The first thing I can remember is at the Unity events in Los Angeles, California, of 1996, October.
Q Prior to November of '96, which would give you a fairly narrow window, did you help him set up meetings with any agency or administration officials?
A I don't think prior to the time I indicated I first met him that I had any dealings with him.
Q Did you have any interaction with him in October or November of 1996, during which you helped to arrange meetings between Mr. Nichols and any government employees?
A No, I did not.
Q Are you aware of any meetings between Mr. Nichols and Chairman Fowler?
A Not per se, no. I would not be surprised if a meeting took place between Mr. Nichols and Mr. Fowler, but I don't know for a fact that one did.
Q Did Chairman Fowler ever discuss with you issues brought to his attention by Mr. Nichols?
A As I was in touch with Mr. Fowler during the Unity event, or during that period of October '93, he could have brought something to my attention as he was involved with us on it. But I don't have any recollection of the chairman bringing anything to my attention regarding Mark Nichols.
Q I may have missed that but I wasn't sure whether you said October of '93?
A Excuse me, '96.
Q You said '96, okay.
Are you aware of any contacts between DNC employees and the White House regarding taxes on tribalowned businesses?
A None whatsoever.
Mr. Wilson. I've provided Mr. Mercer with a memorandum, one page; it's marked DNC 3235646. It's from Don Fowler to Bruce Lindsey. The document does not have Mr. Mercer's name on it, to the best of my knowledge. And it involves a number of issues involving Native American tribal matters.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether you had any input into the preparation of this memorandum?
A I can say without a doubt I had no input with regard to this memo, although I might have been blind copied on it. But I don't believe I was.
Q Do you know if Bruce Lindsey responded to this memorandum?
A I have no idea if he did or not.
Q Do you know whether
A Or whether for that matter that he received it.
Q Do you know whether Bruce Lindsey ever contacted the DNC about any matter involving Native American tribal issues?
A I'm sorry; I dozed on that. Could you repeat?
Mr. Reed. Actually, we should take a break in a few minutes.
Mr. Wilson. Absolutely.
The Witness. But I'll answer the question, and then take a break.
DCMN HERZFELD
BY MR. WILSON:
Q The question was do you recall Mr. Lindsey ever contacting anybody at the DNC about Native American tribal issues?
A I don't know of Mr. Lindsey contacting the DNC on any issues.
Q Well, we'll strike those lines of questions.
Do you recall or do you know of Harold Ickes ever contacting anybody at the DNC regarding Native American tribal issues?
A I don't know.
Do you want to continue with Nichols? I can go
Mr. Wilson. I've finished this line of questions, and now would be a very good time for a break. If we could go off the record.
[Brief recess, 3:263:50 p.m.]
Mr. Wilson. I'd like to mark this document as Exhibit DM34 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM34
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q I'd just like to return for a moment to a matter we discussed very briefly a short while ago, and that is a project involving a gaming matter and a dog track in Wisconsin.
Do you know whether Patrick O'Connor represents Indian tribes who are involved in a dispute over a dog track in Wisconsin?
A I don't know that for a fact, no.
Q Did Mr. O'Connor ever speak to you about a dog track in Wisconsin?
A Yes.
Q And what did Mr. O'Connor speak to you about?
A He filled me in on the information I shared earlier, which were the parties involved in the issue, and I believe I drafted a summary memo regarding that and passed it on to Chairman Fowler, I believe.
Q And who do you recall were the parties involved in the issue?
A I don't remember, other than the Delaware company being the current owner of the dog track wishing to sell it, and then being angry that they couldn't sell it to this or that there was resistance within the Indian community of selling it; and Larry Kitto being an associate of Pat O'Connor's who was involved with the tribes from Minnesota.
Q What was Mr. O'Connor's interest in the matter?
A I think he was sharing what maybe Mr. Kitto had been sharing with him, which was what he shared with me.
Q What was the relationship between Mr. Kitto and Mr. O'Connor?
A I don't know per se what the exact relationship was other than both being from Minnesota, both supporting Democrats. I don't know per se whether they were client I don't know who was representing who or whether or not he was a support whether he advised Larry Kitto on issues. I'm not sure. I know that Larry was a contributor to the DCCC. I'm not sure if he actually contributed to the DNC or not.
Q Are you aware of any contacts between Chairman Fowler and the White House regarding this proposed casino in Wisconsin?
A I believe there was a memo, and whether or not it was delivered or not, from Chairman Fowler to Harold Ickes. But I don't know if there was discussion on it or followup or, in fact, whether Harold Ickes had received that memo.
Q Did you help to prepare the memorandum that you just mentioned?
A Yes, I did.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer two pages of documents. The first one is marked DNC 3013976, and it's dated Tuesday, April 23, 1996, and it's my understanding that this is a page of Mr. Fowler's schedule. Halfway down the page, 4:45, there is a handwritten entry that says, 4:45 p.m. arrive for meeting with Larry Kitto, Steve Hildebrand, David Mercer re: Indian fundraising.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know where this meeting first of all, do you recall attending a meeting with Kitto, Hildebrand and Chairman Fowler regarding Indian fundraising?
A I don't recall attending this meeting, no.
Q Do you recall attending any meetings with any of these individuals outside the Chairman's office?
A No.
Q Who is Steve Hildebrand?
A I believe Steve was formerly the Midwest regional political director at the DNC.
Q Do you know of any contacts between Chairman Fowler and the Department of the Interior regarding a proposed casino in Wisconsin?
A No, I don't.
Q Are you aware of litigation involving the Chippewa Indians that involves the DNC?
A I'm aware of litigation around this issue, but I'm not aware of the Chippewa Indians as being a participant in that legal issue. I didn't know I did not keep mind of the Indian tribes that were visited or tribe, for that matter, that was involved.
Q Was anybody at the DNC following the course of the litigation that was going on involving the proposed casino in Wisconsin?
A I would have to defer to Joe Sandler. If the DNC is involved, I would have to defer to Joe Sandler on that.
Q Did you ever see any materials on litigation in Wisconsin involving a proposed casino?
A I never received any material. I believe I was asked for documents associated with it that I handed over to Joe Sandler.
Q And who furnished documents that you provided to Mr. Sandler?
A Who furnished?
Q Who gave the documents to you?
A There are ones that I drafted, or if I received any information about it, I passed it to Mr. Sandler, but I don't recall specifically being in receipt of documents. I do recall having documents relating to this that I may have prepared, or, you know, like this one, this memorandum or something, but I'm not sure. Joe Sandler would have to be consulted on what documents are in possession.
Q Do you recall drafting any memorandum or memoranda for any DNC employees about litigation involving the Wisconsin casino project we've been discussing?
A No, I don't think all I was asked was for any documents relating to the issue that was being litigated, I presume, and that's all I know about it, other than I received a phone call last week from the Milwaukee Sentinel Tribune, or something like that, letting me know that investigators had released documents from the House committee to lawyers in the litigation, and then the lawyers in the litigation released it to the press, and the press was calling me to find out whether or not there was further what other documents we were handing over to the House, the answer of which even if I had it I wouldn't have given, but referred them to the press department.
Mr. Yeager. You were told that a House committee handed a Minnesota reporter documents related to this issue?
The Witness. That the House informed the attorneys, the attorneys being I don't know, ambiguous, that were working on the case in Wisconsin. And the Wisconsin attorneys had shared the information with the reporter that called me.
Mr. Yeager. Do you know who in particular gave the documents to the reporter?
The Witness. I didn't take names, and I was more focused on referring the reporter to the press and communications office than I was with the gathering of information.
Mr. Yeager. Do you know what House entity provided the documents? Was it this committee or another committee?
The Witness. I presume that it was the House Government and Oversight Committee, because it was said in an ambiguous term as you are referring to, and given my involvement in the House, that that was the committee that he was referring to. They made reference to the memos that we are referencing now in the Milwaukee Sentinel.
Mr. Yeager. Did they show these documents to you?
The Witness. No, they didn't.
Mr. Yeager. Forgive me.
Mr. Wilson. No, no, now is the appropriate time to ask these questions. I was interested in the answer as well.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever discuss fundraising among Native American tribes with Mr. O'Connor?
A I had discussed with him when he raised the issue that Larry Kitto may be interested in contributing to the DNC in addition to the work he was doing on behalf of the DCCC. But I don't, to the best of my recollection, know that that ever came to fruition.
Q Did you ever specifically describe how or discuss how any Indian tribal members could be convinced to make $1,000 contributions to a 1,000perhead fundraiser?
A If I did, it was in the context of what I described as Pat O'Connor conveying to me what Larry Kitto's interest would be, and the feedback being that they would be interested in maybe attending a $1,000 event, to the best of my recollection.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this document exhibit DM35 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM35
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know if anybody in Vice President Gore's office, or Vice President Gore himself, had any communications with DNC employees about the Wisconsin proposed Wisconsin casino that we've been discussing?
A The prospect is the first time I've heard it mentioned.
Q Did you ever have any conversations about any Native American gaming issues with individuals on the Vice President's staff?
A Not that I can recall.
Q Do you know why do you know whether Patrick O'Connor was opposed to the proposed casino at the Hudson dog track?
A I think that it was a political situation as well in that the Governor, being a Republican, was being influenced by the Delaware company which may have been contributing to his campaign, and that the Delaware company, wanting to losing a boatload of money, needed to sell this dog track which was not making any money, and actually losing, to the Indians, who were also Republican supporters of the Governor. I believe it's Thompson. And that and so there was a political context in which it was in, and I believe the motivation given that was how can we get a hearing with those that we are supportive of, and that being the Democrats? And so that's the context that I perceived it to be in.
Q Did you know contemporaneously that Mr. O'Connor sent a letter to Harold Ickes informing Mr. Ickes that members of Native American tribes were attempting to stop the approval process for the proposed casino at the Hudson dog track?
A I would first characterize it I'm not sure it would be stopping the proposal, but there's all complications which I never got into with regard to rights in land or land in rights and wanting to be heard as to the economic impact of granting the lands in right, which I believe is the purview of the Interior Department, and that it was their feeling that they had not had a hearing about that to whom they needed to speak to, I don't know but to inform them of what the economic impact of such a grant would be to neighboring Indian tribes.
With regard to Pat O'Connor's communication with Harold Ickes, I believe that he informed me that he may have been in contact with Harold, but in what form and shape and the substance of which I'm not exactly sure.
Q Did you make any calls to congressional staff or congressional Members about the Hudson dog track?
A It's the first time you're making me think about it. I don't have a recollection about it. I could have, but I don't know that I did.
Q Do you have any general recollection of talking to anybody outside of the DNC about the Hudson dog track issue?
A No. And let me just preface, when you mention the Congress, I wouldn't even when you're asking that question, I don't even know who I would call that would have a hand in trying to create an audience for an appropriate hearing.
Q Did you contact anyone in the White House to set up or help to set up meetings to discuss the Hudson dog track issue?
A I don't believe I did.
Q Do you know who Tom Schneider is?
A The name sounds familiar, but I can't associate it, probably because it is a common name, but
Q Did you have any conversations with John McCarthy, who's head of the Minnesota Indian Gaming Commission, about the Hudson dog track issue?
A I the name I have no recollection of, but when you mention that, there may have been somebody that put me on the phone with to give me a briefing on it, but or a clearer understanding of it, but the name doesn't mean anything to me.
Q When you refer to Mr. O'Connor putting you on the phone with somebody, what would the context of that have been being situational, where were you located when the call was made?
A The DNC. Not that that person was sitting with him or me, but that he may have had somebody contact me to give me a clearer understanding what was going on and how to and my sense, wanting to articulate to my supervisors or others what the nature of the issue was.
Q Did you have any discussions or contacts with Ann Jablonski about the Hudson dog track issue?
A The name doesn't sound familiar.
Q Did you have any discussions with Tom Foley about the Hudson dog track issue?
A The former Speaker?
Q The former Speaker.
A Not that I know of.
Q Did you have any contacts with a man named Brady Williamson of the National Bankruptcy Review Commission about the Hudson dog track?
A No, I don't believe I did.
Q Did you have any contacts with Tom Collier, formerly the Interior chief of staff and now a lawyer in private practice, about the Hudson dog track issue?
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you have any contacts with John Duffy at the Department of Interior about the Hudson dog track issue?
A Not that I know of. I don't know who that is.
Q Was anybody at the DNC in charge of overseeing campaign contributions from Native American tribes?
A I would not characterize it as somebody "being in charge" of working with Native Americans. But Adam Crain had given me memos and had, I guess, worked with that community to some extent. But I don't know if you could characterize it as somebody being a lead as comparable as I may have been to the African American community, or John to the Asian community. I'm not sure they could be characterized that way.
Q Are you aware of any fundraisers that were targeted generally towards the Native American community?
A I may have seen documents that were relative to events, but I don't know for a fact that we took in money from the Indian American community from an event or that they were actually fundraising events. We had activity with them, but I don't know the specifics of that activity.
Q There was a September 14, 1995, DNC event at the Washington Hotel. Do you recall whether you had any involvement in organizing this event?
A I don't believe I did. I'm not even sure where the Washington Hotel is.
Q Were you involved in helping to organize or set up a meeting between tribal leaders and Harold Ickes in 1995?
A To not my knowledge, no.
Q Did you attend any meetings with Harold Ickes?
A Yes, I have.
Q Did you attend any meetings with Harold Ickes that involved any Native American tribal issues?
A Not to the best of my knowledge did I, no.
Q Did Gretchen Lerach have anything to do with Native American matters at the DNC?
A I don't know. All I knew her to be was the assistant to the executive director.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document. It is a letter from Tom Collier to Gretchen Lerach, number DNC 3015371. And it's regarding a Shakopee meeting at 2:30 on June 4.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether you attended the meeting that is proposed in this letter?
A Two things: One, I've never seen this before; secondly, I know I never did attend this meeting.
Q Were you aware that Indian tribes were considering forming a PAC to advance tribal issues in the political area?
A I was not aware.
Mr. Wilson. This letter is marked Exhibit DM36 for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM36
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document of seven pages in length. The first page is numbered DNC 3245433. It is a memorandum to Craig Smith and Judy DeAtley.
Mr. Reed. We don't have a copy.
Mr. Wilson. From Kevin Gover and Cate Stetson.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall ever having seen a copy of this memorandum?
A I've never seen it, and I'm surprised about all the things I didn't know going on at the DNC.
Q Do you recognize the handwriting on the first page of this memorandum?
A I do not.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM37.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM37
was marked for identification.].
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether any contributions from Indian tribes at the end of 1995 were used for media buys?
A For the record, I don't know what campaign what contributions were used for media buys, if there was a segregation or whatever. And I don't know particularly of any money directed from Indians or Indian tribes to pay for media buys. I'm unaware of that.
Q Do you know if campaign contributions were ever delineated specifically for media buys?
A I don't know that.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document, a letter numbered DNC 3245606 from Franklin Ducheneaux to Mr. Mercer dated July 27, 1995.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And I'm particularly interested in the first sentence of the letter.
A So am I.
Q Which states, "I want to thank you for your card regarding the decision of Secretary Babbitt on the proposed land acquisition of the Hudson dog track for Indian gaming purposes."
Do you recall sending a card to Mr. Ducheneaux about this matter?
A What I vaguely remember or recollect is maybe sending a card saying, it was nice to meet you, look forward to working with you on this issue, and we'll do all that we can and hope to keep in touch. Those are generally cards that I will send out. Even the second sentence, the Minnesota tribes are grateful to you David Mercer, I assume and the Chairman for advising the President. I've never advised the President or the Secretary on any matters. So it speaks to the inflation, I believe, of the language here used by Mr. Franklin Ducheneaux, or whatever his name is.
Q Who is Franklin Ducheneaux?
A I don't know. I vaguely remember receiving this or seeing this, and, you know, it was part I took my direction or I took the request from Pat O'Connor on this issue. I didn't I wasn't taking it from a range of people or whatever. Now people may have sent stuff in or talked to me. About the only guidance I took on the issue was from Pat O'Connor. So I don't know what his relationship is to any of the tribes, and not knowing all of the tribes or any of the tribes, only that he had an interest in it, presumably.
Q Did you have any contacts with Secretary Babbitt or any Department of the Interior employees on the decision made at the Department of Interior related to the Hudson dog track?
A I do not believe that I have ever talked to Secretary Babbitt, other than on one occasion during the Inaugural of this year; and Tom Collier, I don't even know what he looks like, or I've never called Tom Collier. Or others at the Department of Interior, I don't other than B.J. Thornberry, I'm not sure who else worked at the Department of Interior.
Q Were you aware of the Department of Interior coming to a decision that involved the Hudson dog track?
A It's only now that I am refreshed that was communicated to me that the Interior Department made some decision. But even from looking at this, I'm not sure what that decision was.
RPTS STALLSWORTH
DCMN HERZFELD
[4:15 p.m.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you remember how the Secretary's decision was announced in this matter?
A I don't even know that there was an announcement to be made or it was made. I should hang this one on my wall.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this Exhibit DM38 for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM38
was marked for identification.]
Ms. Cleary. I'm sorry, the number is DM38?
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know Richard Bertsch?
A Yes, I do.
Q And how do you know him?
A I know him, or I first met him, during our preparations for the 1993 fundraisers that I earlier stated that I worked on in connection with the inquiry regarding John Huang.
Q What does Mr. Bertsch do for a living?
A I understood him to be in the wholesale business of electronic manufactured goods.
Q Did you ever solicit contributions from Mr. Bertsch?
A I don't know if I personally asked him to write a check or raise, but more in the spirit like we approached John Huang, Nancy Jacobson, and I. And we did meet together with Richard Choi Bertsch on the first occasion to give him notice of our plans for the fundraiser and asking for his help in identifying others that may want to participate in that fundraiser or fundraisers.
Q Did you ever receive any background information on Mr. Bertsch?
A I may have received a bio, but I'm not sure that I did.
Q Do you recall ever having requested a bio for Mr. Bertsch?
A I don't recall specifically, no.
Q Do you know whether somebody else sent you a biography about Mr. Bertsch?
A I don't have a recollection, period, of whether or not we had a bio or I requested a bio or one was sent.
Q Have you ever requested any assistance from government employees to set up meetings or help to organize meetings between Mr. Bertsch and government employees?
A Not to my recollection, no.
Q Do you recall recommending Mr. Bertsch to participate in an economic conference in Los Angeles?
A That's quite possible. He may be on that list that you submitted for my review earlier this morning.
Q Did you ever discuss contributions with Mr. Bertsch in conjunction with that conference?
A Well, the I don't know if it was in conjunction with. We were out there fundraising, then it was decided that, in addition to attending the fundraisers, the President was also doing a conference; and upon being notified of that, being asked to submit names for those who might be considered in participating.
When I sat down to meet with him, we did not know the economic conference was happening, and I had learned of Mr. Bertsch, again, as we had learned of John Huang, from prior, you know, being traditional donors or fundraisers for Democrats. And that was the reason for the contact.
Q Do you know if Mr. Bertsch made any inkind contributions to the DNC?
A To the best of my recollection, I don't believe he did, but I'm not altogether sure. I don't believe he did, though.
Mr. Wilson. Let me provide a document that might refresh your recollection at this point.
I've given Mr. Mercer a memorandum from David Mercer to Joe Sandler. It's marked DNC 0292276, and about halfway down, it lists at least what appears to be designation of $2,500 for Mr. Bertsch for an inkind contribution.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you have any recollection of this?
A The memo looks familiar, and it is a record of various people providing either donations or inkinds. And he is listed, but I'm not sure what it was for. Well, it says, hotel expense item, but I'm not sure what it's for.
Q Without getting into any conversations or contacts with Mr. Sandler at the DNC, is this the format of memorandum that you would provide describing inkind contributions for the Counsel's Office to review?
A It's either something like this, or it's individual sheets, you know, or you could call somebody back in the home office and let them know, and then they fill out the form and submit it. So it comes in various forms. I'm not sure that there's a requirement for it to come in one form or the other, but to report inkind contributions as you know them to be.
Q And the form you're referring to, was that a preprinted form that would simply be filled out?
A That's correct.
Q On the second page of the three pages I've provided you, at the top there's an "inkind" designation for a Richard Bertsch, hotel, and you're listed as the solicitor for a Federal contribution of $2,500.
Do you recall having had any contacts with Mr. Bertsch about this inkind contribution?
A I don't I can't recall now specifically sitting down with him or being on the phone talking about it, but it's apparent that I probably requested of him an inkind contribution.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM39 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM39
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know Richard Park?
A Yes, I do.
Q And when did you first meet Mr. Park?
A At the same time.
Q Have you ever solicited contributions from Mr. Park?
A Yes, I have.
Q Have you ever received any background information on Mr. Park?
A I believe we received or there's on file, or was on file a bio. I just vaguely remember seeing U.S. Woopon Corporation or whatever. Woopon is spelled WOOPON.
Q Did you keep files of major contributors in your office?
A Yeah, well no, I didn't keep any individual name files, if that's what you're asking, of the contributors. I kept lists of the major contributors or our donors, which have subsequently been handed in.
Q How did you keep track of, say, biographical material that you would have received on individual DNC contributors?
A I kept them in a file, or I went and retrieved it from the trustee division of the finance division the trustee program.
Q Did you ever forward information you had received to the trustee division for inclusion in their recordkeeping?
A I'm sure on occasion I did, yes.
Q And
A Both proactively and being asked.
Q And in the event that you kept for your own purposes explanatory or biographical material on individuals, how did you file or maintain that information?
A I'm not sure as I said before, I had them in files, or I have them in a notebook, or in an event book or something like that.
Q Did you keep a single file with biographical information of miscellaneous contributors?
A And resumes and people that were interested in work, people that I was dealing with at that time, yeah.
Q Was this a single file that you had put materials into, or did you divide the file up according to categories?
A According to categories
Q Categories like resumes, bio?
A If it was a bio, resume, sometimes I kept them separate; sometimes I kept them together.
Q Did Mr. Park ever seek your assistance in helping to arrange meetings with administration officials?
A Not that I can recall. And I don't believe he did.
Q Do you know an individual named Mi Ahn, AHN?
A Yes, I do.
Q And who is Ms. Ahn?
A She is president of Pan Metal Corporation, which I believe is in southern or Los Angeles, California.
Q Does she have any relatives who work for either the DNC or the White House?
A Not that I know of.
Q When did you first meet her?
A I have trouble recalling meeting her, but I may have met her at one of our gala celebrations, either 1994 or '95.
Q Do you recall ever having solicited contributions from her?
A I don't specifically recall, but I remember being on the phone with her. And I don't know if it was a solicitation or not, because I remember learning about what Pan Metal Corporation does.
Q Did you ever invite her to attend DNC events?
A Probably the gala.
Q I would like to turn and ask a few questions about what have commonly been called Presidential coffees?
A What are those? No.
Q Were you are you aware that the President attended a series of coffees in '95 and 1996
A Yes I am.
Q that included DNC fundraisers?
Were these coffees a part of the DNC major donor program?
A Yes, they were.
Q Now, how just to categorize what the coffees were, how would you describe what they were?
A What I would do was describe the major supporters or trustee program, and among the activities of the major supporter or trustee program was the coffees. And I would explain the nature of the coffees as if to say that they were Christmas parties that you're likely to be invited to or other events throughout the year, convention activities. So I laid out the program. And the coffee was an element of the major supporters' program.
Q Did you ever suggest to individuals that if they contributed money, they might be able to attend a coffee at the White House?
A As stated earlier, what I conveyed to prospective trustees or current trustees that were renewing was the activities of the major supporters program. And as I stated before in the record, if somebody wanted to wanted to you know, remove from their thinking all the other items that I suggested were involved with the trustee program and just think coffees and $50,000, then that's a way that they may convey it. But you had to be a member of the major supporters program or a prospective or, you know, current, but, you know, maybe helping us at a later date or what have you to participate in not only coffees, but in our other events as well.
And I'll give you an example. At the convention, if you were a major supporter, you might receive three different flavor passes as opposed to two flavor passes. So you know it was a package thing. And coffees, conventions, all of it were elements of that.
Q Referring to the trustee or managing trustee designations that individuals were given after contributing certain amounts of money, how was the money that was contributed through the trustee program kept track of, if it was kept track of?
A There were, I believe, budget sheets that Richard Sullivan supervised or the finance director, which I believe was him during the period that we're referencing, and what all the councils were doing or raising in addition to on an event basis would be maintained at the direction of Richard. And I'm not sure of all the subtleties or the implications or the management of that information and how it was presented or laid out or projected.
Q Did you know at any one time how many managing trustees there were and whether they were up to date with their contributions?
A From time to time, I may have been asked by a donor how many managing trustees there are, and I might have then gotten up and gone to find out. But at any given time, I didn't know how many there were. And on it was a moving target in any event.
Q Who would have provided the information to keep you up to speed on the status?
A I think the trustee program or the staff working on the trustee program would have the best count of how many people were at, say, 50,000 or a 100 or finance board members.
Q So retreading ground that we might have gone over in your previous answers, but did you ever suggest to any individual that there was a quid pro quo of $50,000 contribution or any amount of money contribution for attendance at a coffee?
A As stated earlier, I would describe the major supporters program, and the coffee was an element of it, and that's the way I articulate it to the people. I spoke to them on the phone regarding that, or in person for that matter. And you know, whether how they how they perceive that or how they wanted to rephrase that or whatever is based on their own perceptions of it.
Q Did anybody else at the DNC articulate the description of the coffees in the same way that you did?
A I don't know. I have never heard somebody say, you can come for $50,000, put it that way.
Q Who if you could indicate that one person or a couple of people were in charge of the coffee program, who would those people be?
A Well, to put it back in the context that I have articulated, I don't believe that anybody was in charge of the coffee program. There were people who were staffing the trustee program; again, the coffees being an element of that; and the finance director having supervision over the finance division, which included both the trustee program and the coffees.
With that said, I know Ann Braziel was somebody that if you had somebody who was attending the coffee, that she would get the name, and you would give maybe a bio or, you know, two lines on the person so that they could provide that as part of the breakfast. And Richard would have the final list and determine who the attendees would finally be from the DNC finance standpoint.
Q Did you if it came to your mind that you were going to suggest to a potential contributor or a past contributor that they might be able to attend a coffee, would you check with anybody in advance to see if that might be all right?
A I was not the final arbiter of who attended coffees. I recommended or suggested names, and they would either be invited or they wouldn't. I don't recall being told that somebody could not be invited, but then again I may not recall that because it was a nonissue, being that the person wasn't going to be coming.
Q Who did you recommend the names to?
A I would give the name to Ann, and I would almost assuredly talk to Richard Sullivan.
Mr. Reed. Did you ever speak to anybody directly in the White House about one of the coffees?
The Witness. I have never attended a coffee, except for I went to a breakfast that was attended by Vice President Gore, and I don't know that that was a coffee. It was with business council members. So I don't know who was our contact person at the White House regarding coffees.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever receive a telephone call or contact of any sort from the White House with the suggestion of somebody who might be contacted to attend a coffee?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Did you receive contacts from colleagues of the DNC of potential coffee invitees?
A There may have been somebody in another division that said somebody was interested in joining the major supporters program. But off the top of my head, that was very rare and on off occasions, and I don't recall specifically anybody doing that.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that's numbered EOP 024249 that's headed "Democratic National Committee Presidential Coffee."
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And I refer your attention to the first full sentence in the memo which states that "the purpose of this coffee is to raise funds for the Democratic National Committee."
Was there was there any discussion between you and your colleagues as to how the coffees were to be described?
Mr. Yeager. Pardon me, I'm sorry. I apologize for interrupting your question. Perhaps the witness could say whether he's seen the document before.
The Witness. I have not seen this document.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Okay. I just put this out to provide a sense for some sort of framework.
Did you have discussions with colleagues at the DNC about how you would describe the coffees to potential contributors and past contributors?
A As far as I can remember, and I don't know if it was a formal discussion with the finance staff as a whole, but it was we have a term called "servicing events" that are events that you invite your you know, like a retreat. We have retreats annually down in Boca Raton, Florida, or Miami or wherever, and that the coffees were more of a service event in the articulation of it. And, you know, an element within the major supporter program is how I how it was conveyed to me and how I understood the coffees to be.
Q Would you categorize the coffees as servicing events or describe them as servicing events?
A I would, yeah.
Q Now, I think we may turn our attention to a couple of documents in a little bit that describe certain events as servicing events. I know that many coffees in spreadsheets are not listed as servicing events, and some events are listed as servicing events. Was there any direction that you ever received as to how you would would describe fundraising events visavis using the term "servicing" or "not servicing"?
A No, there wasn't. It was, I guess, taken for granted, and you understood the nature of it.
With regard to how it is laid out on budget sheets, I don't know what were the determinations made in describing one event versus another. But I do know one fact, and that was, you know, like for the galas you there was a big push to solicit funds in the coffees or other kinds of events. It was to go after those that were current trustees, those that look like they would be prospective. And it would be a nice orientation like we had other events, and that's how I viewed it and articulated it.
Q Just referring to the document we have in front of you, which I do understand you have not seen this document, but did you ever receive communications from either DNC colleagues or from the White House that told you how or how not to refer to the coffees that were held at the White House?
A No.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM40.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM40
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know who had the final approval in scheduling of White House coffees?
A I don't even know who all was involved in the scheduling of White House coffees.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document marked EOP 035478. It's dated September 28, 1995. It appears to be a computergenerated generic letter. It's not addressed to anybody individually.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And if you could take just a moment to look at the text of this.
Did you have, on your the computer system in your office, a formgenerated letter that would be sent out to coffee invitees?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Do you recall whether
A In fact, I think there was a I think Anne Braziel may have provided the attendees with the final information of where to go and, you know, how to get in. And I don't know whether that was done over the phone or through letter. I'm not sure.
Q Do you recall ever having seen invitations generated by the DNC to coffee invitees?
A I have not seen this document. And to the best of my knowledge or I don't believe I've seen others inviting people to a particular coffee. I just don't recall. I mean, there could be in the papers that, but I don't recall seeing that. And I've never seen this one.
Q In the instances where you've spoken with people about attending a White House coffee, and where that person or those persons actually did attend the coffee, what did you tell them they would be receiving in terms of an official invitation, if you told them anything?
A I'm not sure that I mentioned that they receive an official invitation, but they would be notified of the exact time and what gate to maybe enter or something like that. But I can't remember whether maybe on occasion I had shared with them after getting information from Anne Braziel, or maybe Anne Braziel called them, I'm not sure.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this document Exhibit DM41.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM41
was marked for identification.].
Mr. Reed. Is this a good time for a short bathroom break?
Mr. Wilson. Yes. If we could go off the record.
[Brief recess.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever receive information from the DNC that projected income for the 1996 coffees?
A I don't believe that I specific to coffees, but I think that I have seen budgets, budget projections of the calendar year or, you know, what they may have summarized as what the anticipated income would be or revenue generating would be.
Q Do you know why an entry for projected revenue was included in such documents?
A I was not involved with it, so I don't know the rationale behind it.
Q Did you ever have any discussions with anybody at the DNC as to how the figures that were the stated projections for each coffee were reached?
A No.
Q Did you ever see documents at the DNC for 1996 coffees that indicated inhand amounts of money that had been derived from the coffees?
Mr. Reed. Can we distinguish between before his Senate deposition and after?
Mr. Wilson. Yes.
Mr. Reed. It might be useful, because I could be mistaken, but I do believe he might have been shown such documents during the course of the Senate deposition.
RPTS STALLSWORTH
DCMN GALLACHER
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Yeah. And in fact before November of 1996, did you ever see spreadsheets or budget preparations that listed inhand amounts of money for coffees from 1996?
A Yeah.
Mr. Reed. If you are
The Witness. That included inbudgets for all events and whatever that there would be and what monies in and what monies out, what total is, yes, I would see those.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And did you ever comment to anybody about the inhand and the projected dollar designations for the coffees?
A Did I
Q Did you ever discuss those entries with anybody?
A It could have been
Mr. Yeager. If I I may be confused about the testimony. Did you testify just now that you have seen documents which indicate inhand contributions with respect to any event or
The Witness. Event for we have listings of all events that may have been done, coffees, fundraisers, whatever it may be. And there were I believe you know, I you know, I can't see them in front of me, but I believe that I have seen them, and that they would have what money is in and what money is out. And they were status reports for us to be aware of to meet goals or what I presume to meet goals.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever discuss with any of your DNC colleagues the projected revenue and the inhand revenue designated in these types of spreadsheets?
A I may have. But I mean I don't have the specific recollection of there being a problem or you, you know, trying to resolve or, you know I mean, I'm I don't it doesn't come to mind, but I'm sure I may have.
Q Given the maybe this is a statement more than a question that there were goals for various fundraisers, if you had seen a goal for a coffee, it's my assumption that people would try and meet that goal. And if they didn't meet the goal
A There wasn't a coffee that I was in charge of trying to meet a goal. So there was never I never had discussions about nobody came to me and said, Mercer, you have to close out this event and close it and find the money for it. That discussion, if that's what you're referring to, I don't recall and I don't think ever happened. I didn't have responsibility over the coffees. So I didn't have those kinds of conversations.
Mr. Wilson. I've given the witness a document that's 5 pages in length. The first page is marked CJRO0039. The document is dated 13 March 1996. It's a memorandum from Harold Ickes. It's to the Vice President. Mr. Mercer is not mentioned in this document. If you could take just a moment to look at the
The Witness. Yeah.
Mr. Wilson. Okay. Providing the Mr. Mercer with an additional document, which is Bates marked CJRO0048, which is a spreadsheet page that has been produced, and that refers to fundraising events in January of 1996.
Mr. Reed. Well, I'm going to object to the characterization. It just simply says January, principal event source. But there's no denomination of it as a fundraising event on its face.
Mr. Wilson. That's fair enough. There is no characterization it's a fundraising event. Then there's no year listed.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q I just wanted to ask you. Have you seen, did you ever receive materials that listed fundraising events that were set out in this format with the event and source, the date, the projected revenue, inhand revenue, projected costs?
A I may have seen or been shared with documents like this, but I have never I can't say, one, the first document you handed me, the memorandum to Harold Ickes addressed to the President, Vice President with the whole set of ccs, have I ever seen that before. Except for this spreadsheet, included in that, and the spreadsheet that you subsequently gave me looks like something that would come from the DNC.
Q I just I wanted to ask you a question that may need to juxtapose these two documents. On the third page of the first document I gave you, on the page that's marked CJRO 0041, there is an entry for January deposits under the major donor program?
A Uhhuh.
Q Of $2,347,87?
A Uhhuh.
Q And in the second document, the January spreadsheet I gave you?
A Uhhuh.
Q There is an inhand revenue for the month of $2.24 million.
A Uhhuh.
Q Admittedly, these are different numbers. There's a different between 2.3 million and 2.2 million on these two documents. But I'm just trying to get a sense of how revenue is kept track of, given that in this January spreadsheet, there are three coffees mentioned, each with an inhand total of $400,000.
Was it your understanding that what was your understanding over amounts of money that were listed as inhand for coffees?
Mr. Reed. I'm going to object. Obviously, I'm going to let David answer, but I want to state my objection clearly on the record.
I believe the testimony has his testimony has been in the range that he had no involvement or responsibility at all for the budgeting, internal budgeting process at the DNC, let alone any dynamic interaction between the DNC and the White House. Having placed that objection on the record, and if I'm wrong about that, David, certainly, you know, go ahead on the record.
Mr. Wilson. No, I
Mr. Reed. I'm a little reluctant obviously he's going to answer any questions you have, Jim, but I'm a little reluctant to get into source of the nuances of these particular documents and speculate what they might mean and why people might put information on paper that may be consistent or inconsistent with what people really view these events to be. Having said all of that, of course I'm going to have him to answer any questions you have.
Mr. Wilson. Okay. I
Mr. Yeager. Allow me to object, also. It looks like, Counsel, you've testified to the documents and drawn some sort of connection between these two documents. And I don't believe that it's been established for the record that Mr. Mercer has any connection at all to, as Mr. Reed pointed out, to these documents or to the process in general. So I'm just concerned about some sort of misimpression on the record.
Mr. Wilson. That's a valid concern. And I I'm not sure whether it's whether I'm being too opaque for anybody to see where I'm going or not. I'm not so much interested in Mr. Mercer's knowledge of who prepared the documents or what they literally mean or whether they're accurate as to whether in reviewing documents such as the one we have in front of us, the January spreadsheet, whether you ever expressed any reaction at all to the way that money was disclosed in these spreadsheets. I mean, there are designations here, inhand dollar amounts from coffees on three separate occasions of $400,000. And either $400,000 was realized from these coffees or $400,000 wasn't realized from these coffees. You know we're looking at these documents after the fact. But my question goes to whether when you looked at these documents you ever thought the coffee, for example, on 17 January was responsible for $400,000 of inhand contributions.
Mr. Reed. I'm with all due respect, I'm going to object again, because I don't believe there's a foundation that he looked at these documents in particular, that he was aware of them at all contemporaneously with events that we're talking about as opposed to during the course of the investigation. Having made that objection, David, you can go ahead and answer.
The Witness. I would only be guessing, as the objection has alluded to; not having involvement with the process, I would only be guessing as to how this is laid out and why it's laid out the way it is. And that is that there is some tracking of, you know, the major supporters, the details of which I don't know, but you're dealing with the major supporter's program, and there may have been a correlation of how successful it was, or how much the element of coffees along with other things was in increasing the membership of the trustee program.
But again, I really have to caution, because I was not involved even in discussions of preparing these documents. And so I don't know what the thinking was, both internally or externally regarding that.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Is it correct to say that you were not responsible for providing the, at least to your knowledge, that you were not responsible for providing the raw numbers that were used in either of the two documents I've shown you?
A Absolutely correct.
Q Okay.
Mr. Wilson. I'll mark these for the record, the first one is marked exhibit DM42. The second one is marked DM43.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM42
was marked for identification.]
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM43
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever receive memoranda that Mr. Ickes prepared for the President discussing DNC financial matters?
A I may have on one or two occasions, but I don't recall specifically. And I doubt that I was on the distribution list.
Q Were you ever aware that were you ever aware of any agreement that would have the DNC providing Mr. Ickes with DNC financial information on a regular basis?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Were you aware of any agreement that would have Mr. Ickes receiving financial information from the DNC on a regular basis?
A I wasn't aware of an agreement per se, no.
Q Did the Vice President host coffees for DNC supporters?
A I believe he did.
Q Did you ever recommend anybody to attend coffees with the Vice President?
A I may have. Rarely. And I'm not sure specifically who I might have recommended.
Q Do you know, apart from the fact that the principals are obviously different individuals, whether the whether Vice Presidential coffees were regarded differently within the DNC than the Presidential coffees?
A Other than that the VP coffees were, in my mind, and I don't know if this is the way it was, but in my observational mind it was more directed to the Democratic Business Council.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that's a number of pages in length. It's the first page is marked EOP 055666. It's entitled, "Vice Presidential coffee since April 1995."
And I'm particularly interested in the last page of this document.
The Witness. Uhhuh.
Mr. Reed. I'm sorry, the last page?
Mr. Wilson. The last page of the document, yes.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recognize the handwriting on this document?
A For the record, I've never seen any contents of this document, nor do I recognize the writing.
Q Okay. Did you ever have any discussions with anybody in the DNC as to how either the Presidential or Vice Presidential coffees would be paid for?
A I never had that discussion with anybody or was aware of it as an issue.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM44 for the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM44
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Were you aware of a coffee that occurred on May 13th, 1996, that included a number of prominent bankers?
A Only through press accounts.
Q Did you ever have any contemporaneous knowledge of the May 13, 1996, coffee?
A No, I did not.
Q Were you ever involved in any discussions at the DNC where it was suggested that Marvin Rosen was using DNC events to solicit clients for himself?
A I've heard that in maybe a press account. I may have heard it as a swipe by one of the staff, but I never knew that, nor do I concern myself with it.
Q Apart from the
A And
Q subsequent press accounts, at the time, do you recall any conversations that you had with any individuals?
A No. I only because I can't distinguish it between what I read in the press and maybe somebody, you know, what I considered just taking a swipe, because I don't know of any business or his client relations or whatever he may have been doing, I don't know about it, so I didn't pay heed to it or attention to it.
Q Do you know if the President ever requested the attendance of anybody at the White House coffees?
A I'm unaware of that.
Q Did you ever suggest to any individual a specific dollar amount in conjunction with attending a coffee?
A In alluding back to past testimony earlier, again, I don't have any specific recollection of saying $50,000 for a coffee or mentioning a specific dollar amount to a coffee. But, again, in the context of the discussion of the major supporters' program and the activity of our coffees or major supporter's program, that the focus or an emphasis may have been put on the coffee, and they may have walked away with that impression. But I, again, discussed the coffees in the nature of the major supporter's program along with other elements of the program.
Q Do you know if photographs were taken at any of the coffees?
A I think, as I stated earlier, I believe they were, but I don't know for a fact that they were.
Q Did anybody ever make a request of you to attempt to locate the photograph taken during one of the coffees?
A They could have, but I I don't have a specific recollection of being asked for that.
Q Do you know if notes were ever taken during the coffees?
A I don't know of anybody who did take notes during the coffees.
Q Did you ever receive or see copies of notes that were taken during coffees, any one of the coffees?
A I don't believe I did, no.
Mr. Reed. I'm sorry, what was the question?
Mr. Wilson. Did Mr. Mercer ever see copies of notes or notes that were taken during one of the coffees.
Mr. Reed. Okay.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you have any knowledge prior to November of 1996 that the White House coffees were not on the President's public schedule?
A I didn't know that. I should add, I also didn't think of that.
Mr. Yeager. Do you know that now? I mean, is that
The Witness. No, I don't know that now.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document, which is a single page from a spreadsheet. It's numbered DNC 1781613. And there is an entry marked number 14 on this document that refers to $515,000. And it states, D.C. coffeeAsian, 385,000 not in hand, 130,000 in donor directed from Duangnet Kronenberg.
Mr. Reed. DUANGNET. And Kronenberg is KRONENBERG.
Mr. Wilson. And then there are five entries, PA25, CA30, FL25, OH20, and IL30.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Are you aware of Ms. Kronenberg's participation in a White House coffee?
Mr. Reed. I object because I don't know whether it's Ms. Kronenberg or
The Witness. Yeah, I wouldn't know if it's Ms. or Mr., and I wasn't aware of the involvement of either he or she in the coffee in a coffee.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you
A And for the record, I've never seen this document before. I don't know where it was produced and don't know really what it is.
Q Did you have any contacts at all with either Pauline Kanchanalak or Duangnet Kronenberg about attending a White House coffee?
A I don't as I testified earlier, specifically to Pauline Kanchanalak, I did not, and I do not know Duangnet Kronenberg.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this Exhibit DM45 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM45
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you have any have you ever had any interaction with Harold Ickes?
A Yes, I have.
Q On what circumstances have you interacted with Mr. Ickes?
A On one occasion, I believe I was part of arranging a dinner to meet with African American supporters at the HayAdams. On another occasion, he, as far as I can remember, was involved with a briefing dealing with the African American community. We often had briefings associated with our programs. And he was one of the speakers. And I met with him, I believe on one occasion to update him on the convention preparations. And a component of that was the main issue was the labor component of that and how label excuse me, how labor was being included or not included in the finance divisions supporters' base in the operations of the convention.
Q How would you characterize Mr. Ickes' relationship with the DNC?
A As somebody that was involved with the activities of the DNC.
Q Did you ever prepare call sheets for either the President, Vice President, First Lady, or the Vice President's wife for calls to be made for fundraising purposes?
A I may have prepared calls for the principals, but mainly I believe I prepared call sheets for Vice Presidential calls.
Mr. Reed. Calls of what the question was for call sheets.
Mr. Cleary. Did you prepare call sheets.
The Witness. That I prepared call sheets, yes.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q And at whose request did you prepare such call sheets?
A I don't know specifically, but I believe it would have been directed by Richard Sullivan on but I don't know I can't remember who they actually went to and then to Richard or if Richard gave them to somebody. I'm not sure what the transfer of the call sheets or the, excuse me, the delivery of the call sheets were.
Q Was it Mr. Sullivan who asked you to prepare the call sheets?
A I can't recall that specifically.
Q Do you know who else you worked with in preparing call sheets for the Vice President?
A I was probably one of several that recommended names or prepared individual call sheets. And to the extent that others were doing it, it was in working with them so that there wasn't a duplication of effort probably that I would give. It may have been staff within the trustee or major supporters' program. And I would give them the call sheet so that maybe they didn't prepare the same name or that they gathered up those call sheets and gave them to Richard or they gave them to somebody else. But I don't know who in fact they were given to.
Q How did you select people to be called?
A People that I thought were strong supporters and who would appreciate hearing from the person that they so strongly supported.
Q Did you keep track of the results?
A No, I didn't. Although, it had been relayed to me, I think on two occasions, that they acknowledged receiving a call from the Vice President. You never knew when they were going to be done, if they were going to be done at all, so you had other pressing so you never it wasn't like you were waiting with bated breath to find out if the call got placed.
Q Were the call sheets that you prepared ever returned to you with any indication as to whether the calls were made or not?
A Not that I recall, no.
Q Did you receive any communication as to whether the calls had been made or the calls had not been made?
A No one from the White House ever contacted me and said the call had been made and here are the results. As I stated earlier, to the best of my recollection, on two occasions, I got a call from individuals who had received a call to let me know they received a call.
Q Did you provide any instructions with the call sheets as to where calls could be made from or how calls could be placed?
A Not at all. That would have been none of my business.
Q A term of art that's seen in some of the documents we've received is the media fund. Do you know what the media fund was or is?
A I've had always a vague understanding of the media fund. I never knew whether that meant it was a separate account or whether it was an articulation that we communicated as in fundraising, giving people a schedule or giving them an urgent thing to react to and a goal to achieve. It gives them a sense that they're connected, so I'm not sure whether it was one or the other. I rarely communicated or articulated the media fund, so I'm not altogether sure what media fund really is associated with.
Q Do you know whether the DNC maintained separate bank accounts for specific purposes?
A Not that I am aware of.
RPTS STRICKLAND
DCMN BURRELL
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document. It has been premarked EOP 049239. It is a DNC finance call sheet for Vice President Gore. It's marked that it's from Richard Sullivan and Ari Swiller to an individual named Peter May.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall whether you provided information did you provide information to Mr. Sullivan or Mr. Swiller to help them prepare call sheets in this format?
A I would have given Richard or Ari or whomever a call sheet that I had produced this one I've never seen before, although I do know the name Peter May, I don't believe I've ever met him, and it looks to be generally the format of a call sheet.
Mr. Wilson. I'd mark this exhibit DM46 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM46
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever suggest to DNC donors that they make contributions to notforprofit organizations?
A I would say that I have been asked of organizations that might be involved in voter participation and whether or not who they were or identifying them, and in addition I have also suggested that others make donations to nonprofit organizations.
Q Did you keep a list of notforprofit organizations in your office to send to people if they had requested possible places to contribute money to?
A I may have kept a list on a note card or something at some point, but I don't believe I faxed it out. I could have. But it's only because I believe it was kept on a note card that would not be faxable. But I don't I'm not for sure whether I've ever faxed something to somebody.
Q Do you remember any discussions regarding donations by the DNC to Vote Now '96?
A I don't recall a conversation about the DNC contributing to Vote Now '96, but I think that Vote Now '96 was an organization to which we would encourage people or ask about it to identify Vote Now '96 as an organization to contribute to.
Q Did you ever suggest to individuals to contribute to the National Coalition for Black Voter Participation?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you suggest to potential contributors to contribute to Defeat 209?
A I think I've had conversations about 209, and I believe out in California, when I was there for the Unity event in October of 1996, but I don't believe that I directed anybody or suggested to anybody that they make a contribution.
I may have communicated back to the DNC that there were was an interest for possibly the DNC to contribute to vote now excuse me, Proposition 209, and that may have been because a donor has raised the issue to me as to what the party's position was visavis Proposition 209.
Q Do you recall whether you ever suggested that a DNC donor contribute to Participation 2000?
A Oh, yes. That was more in my position of being a board member than a DNC affiliation, although there are informal relationships with Participation 2000, both in terms of hiring graduates of Participation 2000 or or referring candidates to go through the program of Participation 2000.
Q You mentioned just a moment ago that you're a board member. Is this you're a board member of Participation 2000?
A That's correct.
Q What is the organization, Participation 2000?
A It's an organization chaired or was chaired, I'm not sure of the current status, by Dick Celeste, former governor of Ohio, former Senator Bill Bradley and former Texas Governor Ann Richards. And rather than having a PAC that just donated contributions to candidates, I believe it was Dick Celeste and Bill Bradley's idea that there be a PAC that contributed to the education and the training of political participation and subsidizing that training of students that worked on campaigns. And so the Participation 2000 took these students through training and then slotted them in campaigns around the country.
Q Did you, DNC, as an organization ever make contributions to notforprofit organizations?
A Not that I am aware of.
Q Did you participate in discussions as to whether the DNC should contribute to notforprofit organizations?
A I don't believe that I did. I don't recall, I don't think and I can't think of, you know, I can't think of a situation that that would occur.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that is seven pages in length, the first page is F 0046580. It states at the top "Directed Donor Checks Received to Date." And I'm particularly interested in the very first entry in this page mentions has Mr. Mercer's name on a line next to a donor designated Sony Music Entertainment, Incorporated, date 24 October, and in the state column it's listed National Coalition for Black Voter Participation.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recall asking Sony Music Entertainment, Incorporated to make a $10,000 donation to the National Coalition on Black Voter Participation?
A Specifically, no, but I believe that Sony did contribute and I was probably the one that solicited that contribution or suggested to Sony that they support the National Coalition of Black Voter Participation.
Q Now, why would you be suggesting for them to support this organization, say, in lieu of making a contribution to the DNC?
A They could have very well made also a contribution to the DNC, but I was in discussions where it was asked if people are interested in supporting the National Coalition of Black Voter Participation, that we identify them as a candidate for that. And what the discussions are between the National Coalition and the DNC as to why they would be on that list or be recommended as such, I don't know. But in any event, that's what I was asked to do, that if somebody was interested in giving to, you know, Outreach or Voter Participation, Get Out The Vote, whatever, that that's one of them that we would direct it to.
Q Is it your recollection that in the case of this particular contribution that Sony Music Entertainment approached you about making contributions to the notforprofit organization mentioned here?
A No, but I believe that they have an external affairs, community affairs, and that the discussion was not so much having overwhelming political contributions but that they are also dealing with external affairs, and that these are the types of organizations that they give to. And my mentioning that National Coalition would we are friends or we we appreciate the work that they do, and directing one friend to another friend.
Q Did anybody at the DNC ever ask you to mention possible contributions to notforprofit organizations?
A I have been asked to identify donors who may be amenable to giving to voter participation organizations.
Q And who would have asked you to do that?
A Could have been Brad Marshall, could have been the political division, Richard maybe, but I think it would be at the direction of others down the hall. But I'm not sure.
Q And when you say the direction of others down the hall, to whom are you referring?
A Political division, Brad Marshall, could have been B.J., B.J. Thornberry, the executive director. I'm not sure.
Q And why would they have been directing to you make contributions to an organization that was other than the DNC.
Mr. Reed. We are getting late in the day. I'm going to object to the form of the question that he was "directed" to.
Mr. Wilson. Well, requested.
The Witness. I don't know the answer, because I don't know what conversations took place between them and the coalition or any other of the organizations so I can't answer that.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever participate in meetings between DNC employees and members of the National Coalition on Black Voter Participation during which contributions were discussed?
A Not that I can recall, no.
Q Do you recall whether there was any discussion of why the DNC would direct or ask people to make contributions to other organizations than the DNC at a time before the election when the DNC was trying to raise funds for itself?
A No, I don't.
Mr. Wilson. Mark this document Exhibit DM47.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM47
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever speak with Sean Fuhrer who is the director of Participation 2000?
A Yes.
Mr. Mercer. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that's marked DNC 1599069. It is a call sheet.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you recognize this to be a call sheet prepared for you?
A It doesn't look like it, but I believe it is though.
Q Did you have a standard format for call sheets prepared for you?
A Are you kidding me? If you could get somebody to do it, it was ad hoc, month to month, year to year. Whether you had somebody helping you or not it would change. But I believe this is a call sheet that maybe Sara Searles or Mike Standifer had produced.
Q What kind of group is Participation 2000?
A It's the one that we talked about earlier with the chairs being Dick Celeste, Bill Bradley and the one that I went at length in describing.
Mr. Wilson. This has been marked exhibit DM48.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM48
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Prior to press accounts about a solicitation of a contribution from Warren Medov had you ever heard the name Warren Medov at the DNC?
A I did not.
Q Were you aware of any discussions going on at the DNC about a potential large contribution from Warren Medov?
A Not at all.
Q Did you ever provide names or addresses of notforprofit organizations for either Harold Ickes or Janice Enright?
A I don't believe I ever did that, no.
Q Do you recall ever having received a request from Ickes or Janice Enright about notforprofit organizations?
A No. And I'll say not that I recall. It just seems highly unlikely and that's the reason for my saying no.
Q Did you ever discuss any activities conducted by tax exempt organizations with White House employees?
A Can you repeat the question?
Q Did you ever discuss the activities of tax exempt organizations with any White House employees?
A I don't believe I did. And if I did, it may have been because I was invited to an event, you, the Ralph Lauren breast cancer event or something like that. But as it related to DNC or White House business, no.
Mr. Yeager. Were you referring to a Ralph Lauren event by way of example or illustration or were you
The Witness. I believe I attended a Ralph Lauren charity event for breast cancer as a guest. And you know, that was a social there was a friend that invited me to attend.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Were you ever given bank account numbers for Vote Now '96?
A Not that I recall, no.
Q Were you ever given bank account numbers for the National Coalition of Black Voter Participation?
A I could have, but I doubt that I was, that I was in receipt of bank account numbers. In fact, yeah, I don't recall ever receiving their bank account numbers.
Q Did you ever have the bank account number for Defeat 209?
A No.
Mr. Reed. How long do we have to go?
Mr. Wilson. Probably about half an hour.
The Witness. Let's go.
Ms. Cleary. Is there any way to shorten this? This is getting a little bit ridiculous after almost two full days.
Mr. Reed. Let's just keep going. I'm going to have to break in a few minutes to make some phone calls for scheduling purposes.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether the DNC was ever requested to provide a list of Chinese American trustees to the Taiwan Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the U.S.?
A Not that I'm aware of.
Q Have you ever met an individual named Andrew Shi, SHI?
A Vaguely sounds familiar, but I don't know who that is.
Q Do you know who Steve Boyd is?
A If you can give me some context. Boyd just sounds familiar.
Q I actually can't, and I would if I could. I can provide you a document with his name which might provide context.
A Yeah.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that's numbered DNC 1781772. It is a memorandum from Ari Swiller and Nancy Burke to Steve Boyd?
A I have not seen this, and I don't know who Steve Boyd is. I'm going through my mental Rolodex and it doesn't ring a bell.
Mr. Wilson. This document is marked Exhibit DM49.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM49
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you ever suggest that donations be made to the Back to Business organization?
A Never.
Q Do you know what the Back to Business organization is?
A Only recently through press accounts. And I'd have to even get have my memory refreshed as to what its objective was. I've seen it recently, but I'm not sure what its objective was.
Q Did you participate in any discussions about large scale media purchases during the latter part of 1995?
A Not at all. Except to say that in large staff meetings we would be shown video of ads that were getting ready to go up, but I didn't participate in discussions of the buys or where the buys would be made or where they were airing.
Q Did you ever discuss with potential DNC donors that you would like them to contribute to help to purchase media buys in the latter part of 1995?
A I don't recall doing it. I mean, I could have if we were asked to. But I I have no recollection of getting on the phone and calling people for media buys and having that kind of discussion with them.
Q Do you know whether funds were ever advanced to state parties in order for state parties to purchase media, make media buys in the latter part of 1995?
A I'm not aware of that.
Q Do you know of a consulting firm called the November Group?
A I do now through I've heard of it probably over the last several years. I didn't have an association, but I certainly have an association now due to press accounts.
Q What do you recall now about this November Group prior to November of 1996?
A Just being a consulting group and not knowing who the partners were or anything but just hearing of the November Group as one of many consultants here in Washington.
Q Do you know whether the November Group performed any services for the DNC?
A I don't know that for a fact.
Q Do you know what types of services the November Group was able to perform or did perform?
A I do not.
Q Do you know Martin Davis?
A I know the name now from press accounts.
Q Did you know Mr. Davis or of Mr. Davis prior to November of 1996?
A No, I didn't.
Q Did you know or know of Mr. Malchow, MALCHOW, prior to November of 1996?
A Yes, I did.
Q How did you know Mr. Malchow?
A I knew of him. I don't believe I've ever met him, but being our direct mail consultants at the DNC.
Q Did you ever work with Mr. Malchow?
A No, I did not.
Q Do you know who Bill Hamilton is?
A No, I don't believe I do.
Q It's my understanding he's the director of political affairs for the Teamsters. Have you ever had any dealing with Teamsters or their employees as in your official capacity at the DNC?
A I may have placed a call, but I've no recollection of dealing with the Teamsters, and I say place a call like in preparation for the convention or, you know, somebody may have called me and that's quite possible. But I never had an ongoing relationship, if at all ever spoke to anybody from the Teamsters.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a fax transmission. It's on the November Group, Incorporated letterhead. It's to Mr. Bill Hamilton from Martin Davis, dated August 10, 1996.
Mr. Yeager. Counsel, I don't see a Bates label on this document.
Mr. Wilson. This has not been produced to us by either Mr. Ickes, White House, or the DNC, and I'm not sure where this document was obtained from. It is a document that I've only seen in the last day or so. And it does not have Mr. Mercer's name on it, and perhaps I was going to ask him, first of all, about the second page of the document, which is a memorandum from Richard Sullivan to Martin Davis. If you could just take a second to review the information on it.
The Witness. I have.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether you helped to prepare this document for or with Mr. Sullivan?
A I've neither seen any part of this document, nor did I have any or provide any assistance in producing the document, creating the document and also producing it. This is the first I'm seeing it.
Q Did you participate in any discussions that involved discussing contributions of money to state parties from the Drive PAC?
A From this Drive Political Fund?
Q Yes, the Drive Political Fund?
A No, I did not.
Q Do you know what the Drive Political Fund is?
A No, I do not.
Q Did you ever provide any names of donors to either Ron Carey or any Teamster employees?
A To the best of my knowledge, I never did that.
Q Did you have any communications with either Ron Carey or teamster employees during your time in the DNC?
A I don't think I've ever met Ron Carey, and I'd be hard pressed to identify somebody who works for the Teamsters.
Mr. Yeager. If I could just note one thing about this document, on the first page it appears to be a date, August 12th, 1986 or is that a 96?
Mr. Wilson. I believe that's 1996.
Mr. Reed. It is a bad fax, but on the second and third page it's the same fax notations and it appears to be 96. Third page has July 17, 1997, on it.
Mr. Yeager. I see.
Mr. Reed. It suggests that it was faxed twice.
Mr. Yeager. While I'm interrupting I may as well ask, Counsel, has this document been produced in response to a document request issuing from this committee?
Mr. Wilson. I'm not certain of that. I'm not certain. I was provided this document by a member of our staff. I think somebody might have sent this document to the committee independently of the document request. But I am not sure of that in fact. I only have a couple more questions for you on this.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whether anybody from the DNC ever contacted any of the DNC donors and asked them to make contributions to Ron Carey's Teamster presidential campaign?
A I'm not aware of that.
Mr. Wilson. I've marked this document Exhibit DM50 for inclusion in the record.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM50
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know of a committee called Teamsters for a CorruptionFree Union?
A No, I do not. Let me qualify that to say there's been a recent document request and I believe I saw that as among the document I mean, among the entities listed in that document request. But I did not know of them prior to receiving that document request.
Q Prior to November of 1996 you had not heard of Teamsters for a CorruptionFree Union?
A No, never.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a single page of handwritten notes that's marked DNC 3036428.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM51
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know whose handwriting this is?
A I am guessing that it's Richard Sullivan's because from a recent press account listing the notations on the top of here and referring to it being a Richard Sullivan document and this appears to be the original a copy of the original that was referenced in an editorial maybe over the weekend or last week. So I would guess it was Richard's handwriting.
Q Having seen this, are you aware of any discussions about Teamsters for a CorruptionFree Union prior to November of 1996 that took place at the DNC?
A No, I'm not.
Mr. Wilson. This document has been marked Exhibit DM51 for the record.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Are you familiar with the telemarketing firm called The Share Group?
A Yes, I am.
Q Did The Share Group perform any services for the DNC?
A I had only recently, as of June, found out that they did, and that we I was working on an event in Boston that was scheduled for June 30th and they couldn't they did phone banking for us and in the course of talking with them, or with getting a reference of using them, found out that the former President or President had been involved in the Teamsters. The current President or acting President is a George Bacharach I had known as a former candidate for the 8th congressional district of Massachusetts, who was helping us on preparations for that event and we had contracted with that company to do some phone banking for us. I believe the bill was $7,000. And that's what I recall of The Share Group.
Q Before November of 1996, had you ever heard of The Share Group?
A No.
Q Do you know an individual named Michael Ansara of The Share Group?
A I now know the name from press accounts and I believe his name was mentioned in a conversation with the executive director of the state party of Massachusetts who, when I was asking about The Share Group, had told me about the circumstances around the Teamsters.
Q Prior to November of 1995, had you ever heard of Michael Ansara?
A No, I don't believe I did.
Q Are you aware of any discussions at the DNC or did you participate in any discussions where it was mentioned that the Teamsters were giving money to other unions? And this is prior to November of 1996.
A Like giving money to the AFLCIO?
Q Yes.
A No, I never knew that.
Q Just two very minor things to sort of recapitulate previously. I ask you about DNC gala videos. Did you keep copies of the DNC gala videos yourself?
A Now that you mentioned it, I may have a copy of the Ron Brown video that was I believe he died in April of 96, and I may and then we had a tribute at the gala to him. And I may have gotten a copy and/or also been requested to get copies on behalf of others that had an interest in getting that video.
Q Do you know whether copies of this video were made available in any of the document production requests that you received?
A I don't know that, and I will go back to my office and see if I have a copy and put it in production.
Mr. Reed. I don't know if it was called for or not. I just don't know.
The Witness. I don't either. I can't recall it being called for.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Do you know who arranged for photographers at DNC events?
A I believe our events directors or coordinators.
Q Did your office ever call for a DNC photographer to attend a meeting or be in any event that was going on at the DNC?
A Did I, myself
Q Did your office ever ask for a photographer?
A The finance division?
Q Yeah.
A Well, I think the finance division has contracted with and called for photographers to take pictures at our events.
Q Did you have inhouse photographers at the DNC?
A I don't believe we had inhouse. I believe it was a subcontract.
Q Do you know who the subcontractors were?
Mr. Yeager. Counsel, I hesitate to object at this late hour, but I think we have been over this.
The Witness. I am not involved with the contracting. I have seen the guy and a different guy two different photographers, but I don't know what the arrangement is and I can't even remember their names.
Mr. Wilson. I've given Mr. Mercer a document that's numbered DNC 3168075. It is a memo from Bobby Watson to Chairman Fowler and Chairman Dodd. And I'm most interested in a reference here to at the end of the first paragraph, to copies of checks to an individual named Mark Klaas.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Were you aware or do you know if the DNC had retained Mark Klaas for any purpose?
A I don't know who Mark Klaas is. I don't know know what he does and didn't know if we had a relationship with him, if at all.
Mr. Reed. I would also note for the record that there is no indication on this document that Mr. Mercer ever was the recipient of the document, that it was directed to him and that it would have been within miles of a reasonable purview of his duties and responsibilities at the DNC.
Mr. Wilson. Okay. This document is marked Exhibit DM52.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM52
was marked for identification.]
BY MR. WILSON:
Q I'm reviewing a document that discusses a Fox Newscast event and I would give you a copy of it, but I don't have more than one copy right here. It discusses a hidden camera used to obtain a news report for Fox News.
Mr. Yeager. Counsel, I would have to object. You are characterizing a document that I haven't had a chance to look at and neither has Mr. Mercer.
Mr. Reed. Why don't we take a break and you go make a copy.
Mr. Wilson. This is the last question I am going to ask. I can pass it around or handle it any other way but rather than take more time with this.
Mr. Yeager. Why don't you go ahead?
Mr. Wilson. I wanted to ask Mr. Mercer's for his characterization of what is in this document.
Mr. Yeager. I would feel comfortable if you handed it to Mr. Reed to look at.
Mr. Reed. I don't object to you asking a question, but let me just take a quick look at it.
(Document proffered to counsel and witness.)
Mr. Reed. Have you seen it?
Mr. Yeager. I haven't actually. I'd like to look at it when you're finished.
Mr. Reed. It's EOP 030601. We'll have a chance to look at it at the break and take some notes, but why don't we let Michael take a look at it. Why don't we let Mr. Mercer take a look at it and then you take a look and you may have some followups later on.
The Witness. I've had a chance to look at it.
Mr. Yeager. Can I have a chance to look at it?
The Witness. Sure.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Did you know that a hidden camera had been used to record a conversation between another individual and yourself regarding White House coffees?
A Obviously after the fact.
Q It states here that Lewis asked Mercer how much would it cost to sit next to Stephanopoulos at a dinner. Mercer respond $100,000. Do you recall having made that comment?
A I don't specifically recall making that comment, but if I did, I believe it would have been in a very sarcastic vein, and that being that Stephanopoulos I never remember ever seeing him at one of our fundraisers, and I think it was at that point in the conversation of talking with Mr. Lewis, who was it was getting to me that he was peppering me with questions that I may have responded to him sarcastically but I don't recall specifically that except the sense of being peppered about questions.
Q Do you recall the context of Mr. Lewis did Mr. Lewis ask to have a meeting with you?
A Yes, he did.
Q And do you recall, did you meet with him?
A Yes, I did.
Q Where did you meet with him?
A I believe it was atop the Hyatt Regency, Hyatt Regency restaurant.
Q Where?
A On New Jersey Avenue.
Q And do you recall what Mr. Lewis specifically asked you?
A He wanted an overall understanding of our programs. And so I took him through every program we have. I tried to educate him as to how we were structured and what the activities of our programs were.
And, you know, tried to he seemed to be somebody who was needing to be educated, and so I tried to give him the best understanding I could, and also, you know, injecting some of my personal sense because it started to go there, in terms of broad sense of what's going on, and that was the nature of television.
Q Was it your understanding that Mr. Lewis was a potential donor to the DNC?
A It was my understanding that he was a prospective donor in addition to knowing how to participate in the process, or learning how to participate in the process.
Q It states on the second page of this document that Mercer also told Lewis that if they attended congressional fundraisers together that Democratic Members of Congress would understand that they should take Lewis seriously. Do you recall having a conversation with Mr. Lewis about attending congressional fundraisers?
A I don't think that's an accurate statement. I don't ever remember making that statement. And this appears to be secondhand information, so I have no recollection of making that statement.
Q Do you remember what you did tell Mr. Lewis? About first of all, do you remember whether there was a discussion of attending congressional fundraisers?
A I don't recall a discussion about congressional fundraisers.
Q Do you recall whether you made any suggestions to Mr. Lewis about whether or not he would be taken seriously in any context?
A I do not recall that, other than if he was a member of one of our programs, people would understand that he was a member of our program and be treated accordingly.
Mr. Wilson. That concludes my round of questioning.
Mr. Reed. We need to take about a 10minute break and then you have a few questions?
Mr. Yeager. Yes.
[Recess.]
Mr. Yeager. Mr. Wilson, are you finished?
Mr. Wilson. If I could just one last ministerial thing, and that is introduce the last document we were speaking about.
[Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM53
was marked for identification.]
Mr. Reed. Did you get some copies made?
Mr. Wilson. Exhibit DM53, and I did not get copies made, which won't apply to you so much as you don't get to keep the copies anyways. And I apologize for that, but if you would like a copy.
Mr. Yeager. I would like a copy at a convenient time. Actually if you are done with that ministerial act, I would like to ask a question, followup question about that document.
Mr. Wilson. I am done with ministerial acts and anything else, I think.
EXAMINATION BY MR. YEAGER:
Q First of all, Mr. Mercer, on behalf of the Minority Members of the committee, the Members of the Democrat Party, I'd like to thank you for coming here today voluntarily and for the amount of time that you have devoted to this deposition and to testifying before this and other bodies. I know it has been a burden to you. And I'll ask you some questions about that later.
A Sure.
Q But before we get to that, I'd like to turn your attention once again to Exhibit DM53, and the subject that that document raises.
With respect to the Sheila Kaplan story, I guess I'd like to bring you out a little more on how you were approached and how the discussion, if any discussion, turned to the subject of coffees. Do you recall how you were approached?
A I believe I received a phone call from Mr. Lewis asking if he could meet with me. And I don't know if we first met or he came by the office or whether I had just met him at the Hyatt Regency restaurant on New Jersey Avenue. And I don't recall specifically there being a discussion of coffees, but in the course of going through all of the donor programs and the activities, the coffees could have been mentioned. And, you know, what I noticed eventually with Mr. Lewis was his focus on the perks and benefits accruing to members of the of the various donor programs and trying to elicit from me my perspective of how things functioned. And I tried to explain to him, you know, both functionally how the programs operated and to some degree there would be an overemphasis of certain elements involved in those programs that he would keep directing attention to.
So in the discussion I could have emphasized coffees with him, emphasizing coffees to be responsive to him. But I don't recall there being a discussion of coffees per se. But he did try and direct an emphasis to certain perks and benefits.
RPTS STRICKLAND
DCMN MAGMER
Q So that may have affected the course of your conversation if he was particularly interested in one aspect of the major donor program?
A Yes. And it, in fact, did from the standpoint that the questions I felt like I was almost under interrogation and so many different examples that he would ask me for that I started to inject sarcasm into the conversation.
Q Okay. You testified earlier with respect to coffees that they were a part of the major donor program, though one element of the major donor program. Was it your understanding that a supporter of the Democratic Party could not attend a coffee if that supporter didn't make a contribution of a certain level to the DNC?
A I don't think I ever addressed that issue. I think it was more were they members of the trustee program or major supporters program. Or in the case of the DBC, I mean, in general, it had to be the supporters of our programs who were invited to or who would be recommended or suggested. That was the pool of people from which we drew to include on the list recommended list of participation.
Mr. Reed. When you say you drew, meaning the finance department?
The Witness. Yeah. But from what I understand, there were other there were requests made of other divisions for the people that they worked with and the supporters they worked with to participate in coffees. It wasn't just a finance division recommendation; there were other divisions that recommended participation or individuals to participate in the coffees.
BY MR. YEAGER:
Q You weren't aware of anybody who had been disinvited from a coffee because they had not contributed a certain amount of money?
A No, I'm not aware of that or, for that matter, for any other reason disinvited.
Q And you're aware that supporters of the DNC who did not contribute also attended White House coffees?
A I am aware of that.
Q Okay. You have testified at various points today about your efforts in among various Democratic constituencies in the country. Would you say that one of the goals of the DNC is to mobilize support from various constituencies within the party?
A I would not only say that, but I personally believed that it's, one, traditionally not an area, at least the finance division. There has been times that I have been the only AfricanAmerican on staff in the finance division, and it was an area traditionally that AfricanAmericans or other constituents had not been involved in. So I took it upon myself and saw it as part of my job informing them of this vehicle for additional participation in the political process as well as with the party. So, to me, it was both an educational vehicle as well as a fundraising vehicle.
Q You have just testified to your efforts among the AfricanAmerican community, and you have given testimony earlier today about the Asian American community. Were there other fundraising efforts not necessarily by you but by other members of the finance division directed toward Latinos?
A Yes, there were.
Q And Jewish Americans?
A Yes.
Q And women?
A Especially.
Q And seniors?
A I don't know that to the extent we are discussing, but I believe there may have been one event or discussion of such.
Q It was not unusual for various fundraisers to direct their efforts toward certain constituencies?
A Not at all.
Q And so there was nothing unusual about fundraising efforts targeting the Asian American community?
A No.
Q Okay. One of the members of our committee, Congressman Condit, has asked that in each of these depositions we ask witnesses questions about the duplicative nature of their testimony and production of documents. I don't mean to offer you a conclusion; I'm asking you for your testimony.
Have you been asked by other investigative bodies to testify or give evidence on fundraising and other matters investigated by this committee?
A Yes, I have.
Q Who has asked to you testify and provide evidence?
A The Senate Government Oversight Committee, the House Government Oversight Committee, DNC staff, DNC press communications office, the FBI, and I think that's it.
Q Directing you toward the Senate, you were asked to appear for an informal interview?
A That was the first occasion; and then I was invited to sit with them on an informal interview, yes.
Q And you have been questioned by the FBI?
A Yes, I was.
Q And have you appeared before grand jury?
A No, I have not.
Q Okay. Would you say the questions from all of these investigative bodies have overlapped or been duplicative of the questions of this committee?
A For the most part, yes.
Q You have produced documents to your employer as part of this investigation, have you not?
A Yes, I have.
Q And to the best of your knowledge, the DNC has produced documents to the various bodies investigating campaign fundraising practices?
A To the best of my knowledge, they have.
Q And that would include the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee?
A Correct.
Q And the Justice Department?
A I believe that, but because I haven't been before the Justice Department in any way or presented with documents, I can't be conclusive about that.
Q And they've produced documents in this committee also?
A Correct.
Q Can you estimate how much of your time you spent in responding to requests to this committee for testimony or documents? And I'm actually asking you to try as best you can to calculate the total number of hours you spent looking at documents, reviewing documents, preparing for interviews and depositions and actually testifying.
A I'll state to give you a sense, I didn't go home for Christmas I didn't go home for Christmas vacation until the 27th in order to comply with the first search for documents; and a lot of that being that I was on the road, as I stated before, in '96 in California. So I came back to a whole series of requests that I had to meet.
If I can enumerate the period of time I've spent one by one and then the total will be obvious, but I would say probably 4 to 5 days in answering the first search, and that involved it was at a time when I had to go through every do searches on every name that may have been listed through the computer because the system had not been set up at that point where the DNC overall could do the search. So I had to go through all of my computer records, in addition to the paper. But it was the computer stuff that was more time consuming, and there were late nights and probably about 5 straight days of trying to answer the first request for documents.
There have been two subsequent searches for documents, I believe, maybe three more. I would say that those have totaled a combined 8 days of making sure that I was responsive to those and in going through, just making sure as a cleanup that I had been responsive to preceding document searches.
And then my hours in the Senate have been I believe it was probably a half a day, if my memory serves me, of the interview; and I think I spent another 21/2 days interviewing being deposed in the Senate.
And then the FBI last week and then for about an hour. Then here for the last 2 days. And then for every day that I spend in that I spend with a body investigating this, I spend probably an equivalent day or half a day with attorneys just getting in the frame of mind of going before those bodies.
Q Are you taking time away from work to do all this work that you have just testified to?
A I have. And it has been you know, it has been a juggling act to, one, have it just hovering over you while also performing your duties; and it's just the whole aura, you know, of the media accounts.
One of the biggest things is that especially October, November, December, January of last year when the legal process hadn't even kicked into gear or the congressional committees had not been kicked into gear, every day we were involved, aside from raising money, in responding to the untold amounts of press inquiries every single day. So you and trying to search back information or whatever. So that was additional time spent on this in trying to be responsive and informative as to past activities.
Q Have you or has the DNC as your employer incurred expenses in responding to the demands of this committee?
A Both have. There's an agreement for the DNC to cover my legal expenses, but if for some reason they decided or decided to not pay those bills I'm ultimately responsible for them.
Q And do you know if this committee has offered to reimburse you for your time or for your expenses?
A I know of no such offer.
Q If it's available to you, will you seek reimbursement from the committee?
A If it were available and I knew that was a financial recourse and I was in a situation where the DNC wasn't paying for it, it is certainly a recourse that I would seek out.
Mr. Yeager. Okay. I thank you for coming today and for your testimony.
The Witness. Thank you.
BY MR. WILSON:
Q Just one followup question to Mr. Yeager's questioning.
Referring to the Fox News broadcast that we were discussing, you noted that you used sarcasm when you spoke to Mr. Lewis about perks. How was Mr. Lewis different than others who made requests of you about perks, people like Charlie Trie or Johnny Chung?
A It was clear to me eventually that Mr. Lewis and I don't think I've ever asked if he was or had given to political campaigns before or been involved but it was clear to me that he didn't have any idea of how one would become a donor or participate in the process as a donor. And but then they started getting very picky about, you know, exactly almost as if he would lay out a contract and ask me to sign at the end of the conversation, you know, saying that this is what you would get.
And I don't believe that I've ever communicated to him I tried to create for him the environment as opposed to any guarantee of certain things happening, as in this business we all know that there are no guarantees, so.
Mr. Wilson. Mr. Mercer, thank you very much for giving your time to come here.
Mr. Reed. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 6:40 p.m., the deposition was adjourned.]
CONTENTS
EXHIBITS: PAGE
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM8
was marked for identification............................... 3
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM9
was marked for identification............................... 7
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM10
was marked for identification............................... 9
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM11
was marked for identification.............................. 10
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM12
was marked for identification.............................. 15
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM13
was marked for identification.............................. 19
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM14
was marked for identification.............................. 20
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM15
was marked for identification.............................. 24
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM16
was marked for identification.............................. 30
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM17
was marked for identification.............................. 38
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM18
was marked for identification.............................. 52
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM19
was marked for identification.............................. 57
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM20
was marked for identification.............................. 60
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM21
was marked for identification.............................. 67
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM22
was marked for identification.............................. 73
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM23
was marked for identification.............................. 86
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM24
was marked for identification.............................. 89
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM25
was marked for identification.............................. 94
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM26
was marked for identification.............................. 97
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM27
was marked for identification............................. 104
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM28
was marked for identification............................. 110
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM29
was marked for identification............................. 112
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM30
was marked for identification............................. 117
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM31
was marked for identification............................. 120
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM32
was marked for identification............................. 131
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM33
was marked for identification............................. 138
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM34
was marked for identification............................. 145
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM35
was marked for identification............................. 152
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM36
was marked for identification............................. 157
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM37
was marked for identification............................. 158
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM38
was marked for identification............................. 162
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM39
was marked for identification............................. 166
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM40
was marked for identification............................. 176
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM41
was marked for identification............................. 178
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM42
was marked for identification............................. 187
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM43
was marked for identification............................. 187
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM44
was marked for identification............................. 189
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM45
was marked for identification............................. 193
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM46
was marked for identification............................. 198
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM47
was marked for identification............................. 204
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM48
was marked for identification..............................205
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM49
was marked for identification............................. 208
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM50
was marked for identification............................. 213
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM51
was marked for identification............................. 214
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM52
was marked for identification............................. 218
Mercer Deposition Exhibit No. DM53
was marked for identification............................. 223